Another question about medical expenses

[kathy4530050]

Although I WAS planning on filing next week, I'm pretty sure right now that I am going to wait 6 months to file and just go ahead and deal with some pressing health issues. I am uninsured and so everything will be out of pocket and will involve a specialist and be expensive. I can pay for it right now, but want to ask this: will my medical expenses help in any way to reduce my income for the means test? If they will, then maybe I won't have to wait 6 months . . . any thoughts anyone?

[LuciluS]

Income is just that - Income.

Medical expenses are expenses and are treated as such in a Bankruptcy just like utilities, food, etc.

Kathy:

I've read some of your other posts where you have an ongoing medical condition and have no insurance and have come upon some unexpected income.

If I were in your shoes, I would buy health insurance,even though for the 1st twelve months, your pre-existing conditions are not covered, you NEED health insurance.

I am disabled (at 50 yrs old) due to an automobile accident. I had 5 surgeries from 5/05-11/07, have a Spinal Cord Stimulator implanted, see a Pain Management Doctor every month and am on Morphine.

My husband at 50 yrs old (he is 52,I'm 54) had 5 bypass surgery and 5 months later a Pacemaker implanted.

Yes, I would wait the 6 months before filing and let that unexpected income drop off, but please check in to getting health insurance.

Luci

[kathy4530050]

Thanks Lucy. So sorry about all of your and your husband's health problems. Wow. You sure have a lot to deal with. I'm 49, so I'm right there with you. I feel grateful because my problems respond very well to treatment and, if I can afford to keep up with it, can probably fully recover some day. And I WILL get health insurance again. It's only been the last 6 months that I've been without it. Unfortunately, my treatment program falls under "alternative" and so none of medical expenses were covered even when I was insured. But, at the very least, I know I need some sort of high-deductible catastrophic coverage--just in case.

So, about my medical expenses. When I DO file, those will drop right off my net income, right? Expenses are confusing to me. My lawyer told me that my heat bill was too high and that all of it couldn't be included in my expenses. My house is in foreclosure and I am renting right now and how in the world could I have known what my heat bills would be in this 100 year-old house? I live in the arctic north and keep my house at 65 during the day, down to 60 at night, and still had a heat bill of $100 last month! Knowing that trustee wouldn't allow me to use all of my heat bill in my expenses makes me concerned about medical bills. Can I include the ENTIRE TOTAL of my medical bills or is there some sort of cap on the dollar amount you can include.

Thanks for the good advice.

[Tromploi]

Sorry I don't remember, have you done the means test yet? It will tell you what the allowable deduction is for medical. I don't know if there are special circumstances beyond, but I think the deduction is pretty standard. It's based on number of people in your household, what state you're in, etc.

Also, a side note on your insurance. I am 38 and have had 2 types of cancer. Healthy as a horse now (what does that even mean? Haha) but I have pre-existing conditions that made it so just getting ME insured was about $1500/month and that was only major medical. But, we went through Kaiser as a small business. Husband is employer, I am an employee and they don't require a medical exam. Just like a "real job". Just sharing this as an FYI to you.

[kathy4530050]

Wow. You've been through a lot! Congratulations on being healthy as a horse now--good for you.

Yes, I've done the means test for the previous 6 months and just came in under the wire. But, now that I have decided to wait to file, I want to address some medical issues in the interim. So now I have to make sure that I will still pass the means test 6 months from now. I am self-employed and so my income various wildly. I was hoping all of my medical expenses could be included . . .

[LuciluS]

My attorney, said we could include ALL of our medical expenses including prescriptions ($2,400 a year with health ins.). He said be prepared to bring such with you to our 341. No problem. I have every bill attached to what insurance paid and a copy of our cancelled check.

Heat bill is $100 a month and Attorney says too high? That's not right. We live in Arkansas and our electric and gas average over $210 a month. Again, if you can show proof your heat bill was that high (copy of the bill & cancelled check/however you paid it), it should be allowed. Electric & Gas companies will not be reducing their rates, they will be going up, if anything.

Our Attorney told us to figure our expenses based on the past previous 12 months. Like you, we had some money come in February and we are going to wait until September 2009 (income Mar-Aug) to file. So our expenses will be based on Sept. 2008 through Aug. 2009. Oh me, I've got a surgery coming up in March for skin cancer. O well, will just have to pay the $250 to the hospital and whatever the other doctors charge.

Our problem is we quit paying our credit cards in Oct. of last year. After I made the 1st installment to the Attorney, he said give the CCs my name & phone number, so we did. But of course, we thought we would filing in February. Already had one company call and ask why we didn't file, I told her I had skin cancer..not a lie. Attorney said just don't answer the phone.
Allied, which is a collection company(I think for Wal-Mart), calls at least 15-20 times a day.

Hmm not going to be an easy 6 months, but sometimes we 'gotta do what we gotta do' LOL!

Luci

[deadbroke99]

My house is all electric and this month the bill was $421.00!! I am about fainted.

[deadbroke99]

and we live in South Carolina where temp is usually around 40 to 60 this time of year

[kathy4530050]

Typo!

I clearly made a typo. My heat bill was $400, not $100! So that's where my lawyer's objections came from. Even still, I think it's good advice to bring in my heat bills. I keep my thermostat down low, but my bills are sky high.

I also like your attorney's advice about including all of your medical expenses and then keeping every receipt. I will definitely discuss this with lawyer.

I think I'll be doing the same thing you're doing--waiting until September to file. Waiting is hard, but if there is one thing I have learned from this forum, it's that a successful bankruptcy definitely involves some strategizing. It seems that you prepare for a bankruptcy like you prepare for your retirement--slowly, thoughtfully, and with much preparation.

BEST OF LUCK LuciluSwith your upcoming surgery. I year from now, ALL of this will be behind you . . .

[LuciluS]

Thanks Kathy.

There is one thing about you I've noticed in your Posts. Not one post have you been negative, always Positive and just seem to have a Good Disposition all around.

I can remember last Sept., after attempting to go through Debt Counseling and they advised us to see an Attorney, and meeting with him, I came home and cried for a solid week. I felt ashamed and felt like I had failed my husband as he is an over the road truck driver and is gone 6 days a week & I pay the bills.

If It wasn't for finding this Forum (mainly just did a LOT of reading), I would still be a crying. But Now, I'm waiting out the time for my 401k Distribution (Feb.2009) to drop off, keeping a monthly Spreadsheet (yeah, guess I ought to buy Quicken), and will be ready to meet with my Attorney on August 3, 2009 LOL!

Hugs,
Luci

[kathy4530050]

Thanks for the kind words Luci. I've had some dark nights of the soul too. On many days, I feel like I am struggling to go up on an escalator going down. I lost my house, my offices, and my employees. My business survived, my health declined, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now. I am telling myself that 2009 is the Year of Rebuilding. I am rebuilding my business, my financial health, and my physical health. By the end of 2009, I'll be out of bankruptcy, hope to have some money saved, and to have reclaimed my health. If I can do all of this and have NO DEBT at the end of it, it will have been a good year, right?

I feel just like you--this forum is a Godsend, and absolute Godsend. It's so, so good to find a community of people going through the same thing you are. And WOW! What a lot of great advice is here!! It's fantastic to be able to ask one question after another and at any hour of the day or night and have someone reply who has had a similar question or experience. Invaluable.

God bless everyone here. This is a good, good group of people.

Hang in there til August 3rd Luci! There's light at the end of your tunnel too!

Kathy