My attorney is an idiot!

[justbroke]

The money I made 6 months has absolutely nothing to do with what I will be making. My income is dropping and dropping more and more. My last 6 months I am over the means test, but the next 6 months I will be $1000/mo. under.

I agree completely, as I have a similar issue (with a large bonus, rental income from a unit I'm not keeping, and poor bankruptcy pre-planning).

Anyhow, there was a case recently (it's on Bankruptcy Law Network) in which a judge agreed with a debtor that the projected disposable income is not simply the current monthly income -- the lookback -- multiples by the applicable commitment period. I am so happy about that!

I always read and understood the Code to mean that the projected DMI is a look forward, and it not based on the look backwards.

[debtmonster]

Debtmonster it is so good to see you again. Yes, you are a turnip. LOL. We are very pleased with the Angelfoodministries.com food.

Good to be back. If my next commission check exceeds $3000 this month, I will hopefully pay off my attorney $1400 and be paid in full so they can start the paperwork. Hopefully by April 14th I will be able to file. I get paid on the 15th of every month, so I want to file right before I get paid again. I won't have two nickels to rub together by the next pay day.

Here's the break down:
$3000
-$1400 Lawyer
-------
$1600 left over
-$309 Car
-------
$1291 left over
-$400 food/toiletries
------
$891 left over
-$450 (IRS self-employment taxes)
-------
$441 left over
-$500 home business expenses
-----
LEAVES ME NEGATIVE

And that didn't include money I needed for car insurance, electric, gas, car maintenance or other things. See how fast the money goes?

I need to file ASAP and get this behind me.

[debtmonster]

Anyhow, there was a case recently (it's on Bankruptcy Law Network) in which a judge agreed with a debtor that the projected disposable income is not simply the current monthly income -- the lookback -- multiples by the applicable commitment period. I am so happy about that!

I LIKE THAT!!! My projected disposable income is a COMPLETE JOKE.

I hope my judge will think the same, otherwise I will be forced into a Ch. 13 which I will default on and not pay anything. What will happen when I can't pay on a Ch. 13? Can they re-convert it to a 7?

[Confused78]

There is no way to buy "healthy" food for 5 people for $250/mo. We can easily spend $125/wk. for 2 people. Produce is not cheap. Apples, oranges, banana's, lettuce, tomatoes, beans and other goods are all very expensive. For 5 people you should EASILY be spending $500-700/mo. on groceries. And for the $125/wk. we spend, we buy no soda whatsoever. That's just us drinking water only.

Yeah we easily lost the extra money. I have groceries slips to back the new amount as well as bills/slips to prove the other increases as well. We shouldn't have any problem with that part of it. Now if we can just get this 341 meeting that I haven't yet had figured out

[debtmonster]

Yeah we easily lost the extra money. I have groceries slips to back the new amount as well as bills/slips to prove the other increases as well. We shouldn't have any problem with that part of it. Now if we can just get this 341 meeting that I haven't yet had figured out

I can't wait to get this done.

[shabam]

We passed the means test but was showing extra income after all bills. I guess if there is extra income then they throw you into chapter 13 since you have money left over that can be applied to the bills.

Let me get this straight. You can pass the means test (earn bellow it) yet they will still look at whether you have disposable cash.

Therefore, if you have more than x $$$ left over every month, they can force you into ch 7? what the heck....

[debtmonster]

I say just ignore them and then when it comes time to deal with the CA, FIGHT IT IN COURT!! They will never win.

See:

http://www.budhibbs.com/flow2.html#lawsuit

I'm still going to file Ch. 7 if I can.

[Confused78]

Let me get this straight. You can pass the means test (earn bellow it) yet they will still look at whether you have disposable cash.

Therefore, if you have more than x $$$ left over every month, they can force you into ch 7? what the heck....

Yep, if you have any extra income left over no matter how much you make they can push you into a 13

[epiphany]

Yep, if you have any extra income left over no matter how much you make they can push you into a 13

Don't get excited. The chances are slim (very) unless you have an outrageous amount of disposable income.

ep

[shabam]

Yep, if you have any extra income left over no matter how much you make they can push you into a 13

Thanks for the update. So basically we must try to end up with as little disposable income as possible.

[debtmonster]

My disposable income varies from month to month. I go by my own bills and can't use these standard deductions or crap like that. My bills are what they are. Like I said, both of my cars are $1050/mo for both payments combined. I don't care what they don't allow or don't allow. I simply cannot afford it anymore.

These people are ridiculous to pick and choose what they see fit to allow you to go bankrupt or not.

But this is what I was paying to the bills right before everything collapsed and I stopped paying:

HSBC $47
BP $120
Rooms to GO $75
MC $45
HSBC #2 $100
Bowflex $23
BoA MC $30
2nd mortgage $110
mortgage $825
Car #1 $309
Car #2 $740
Car #3 $600 (this was repossessed less than 12 months ago)
Car #4 $500 (this was repossessed maybe just over a year ago or so)
Store Visa $84
HSBC other $45
Hospital bill $50
Internet for home business $62
Car insurance $110
Electric $150
Self employment taxes $850
Sam's Club $50
Cell phone $93
Home Depot $20
Dillards $25
Amex $67
Gas $450 (long commutes to work since we are in the boonies. We put 99,000 miles combined on 3 cars in 12 months! We blow cars right out of warranty long before they are paid off)
Prescriptions $350 (we don't have health insurance)
Food $400
Credit card $42
Other credit card $43
Other credit card $80
Local phone $60 (need for faxing, can't use Vonage)
Maintenance for house $120 (at least)
Other $150
Business expenses $400 (at least)
Home owner's insurance $80
Property taxes $100
---------------
Total monthly $6300

In January I only made $3100 gross. This month I am expecting similar or maybe a little less. Do you think they can put me into a Ch. 13 even though I made about $28000-32000 in the past 6 months?

[jeb]

Honestly I can't handle anymore stress right now. I just need this bk to be done and over with, drawing it out and getting a new lawyer or waiting for my money back to do so would push me over the edge.

I can understand that - but filing on this attorney can be done later, doesn't need to be done right now. Might keep someone else from being screwed over by him. - jb

[debtmonster]

What do you think about those monthly bills? Aren't those sweet? All I need is our old $100k income to pay it all again.

[imaloser]

wow

debtmonster ? i don't now how you do it ? could you divide your fixed living expenses out from your unsecured expenses ? that should give you a better idea on where you're at financially (in terms of going forward) - in other words, how much do you need to live, minus your unsecureds. factor in the lowest common denominator of your monthly income - which, from what you say, looks like it will be downward.

and speaking of food - i want to encourage everyone to "grow your own". even if you live in an apartment. the "slow food" movement is well on its way. you can find small plots and big plots just about anywhere for free - even urban lots like the area i live in. vacant lots are being turned into productive "fields" of produce. man-o-man. i made a killing last summer. i grow only the best - heirlooms - no hybrids. i grow for two toney restaurants and they pay premium dollar. i'm close enough that they can come and look every other day and pick whatever they like. i [U]netted[U] $2743.25 (but i had a hard time factoring in my labor costs). to be sure - it is hard labor. my growing season is short but i'm learning how to extend it. hey - i'm a 13'er and i gotta lot of energy to burn up. that was all cash in hand. seed costs nothing - even if you buy the best (i'm a seed saver and i do a lot of trading). it is extremely rewarding. this coming season i have contracted with a farmer's market and i will be selling "salad bowls" - three head lettuces per peat pot (wholesale cost for a 14 inch pot is 1.32) and sterile medium (expensive but i buy bulk). i'm selling each pot for $8.00. i'm telling you - i can't make enough of these. i've contracted for a 1 1/2 dozen a week but i've got orders for five dozen. that's $144.00 a week ! i have no place on my property to grow them ! ! ! i have a tiny urban lot - all landscaped with perenials - so my edible landscape is limited. GROW YOUR OWN ! ! ! IT'S YUMMY ! ! ! and it saves an incredible amount of money. read up on square foot gardening - you'd be shocked at what you can grow in a limited amount of space. sorry for the long post - i'm passionate about good food !

[debtmonster]

Wow! Now THAT is a great post with some good advice!

We need to grow our own food, but we will be foreclosing soon, so I don't know how long it will last. I think it would be fun. What about the cold weather? It's been in the low 30's here for the past few days. Every living thing outside has been dying.