please clarify 90 days

[deadmonetree]

i have read many threads and would just like some clarity... so we believe we are going to file for chapter 7. it just became apparant to us in the last 7 days. so do we hire a lawyer and wait 90 days for credit card use because yes we have been using the all the way up to last week we even have a couple convenience check uses. or do i try to pay as much as i can for 90 days then call a lawyer? or can i see a lawyer and just not pay anybody and wait it out for 6 months? I am not clear as the way to go and i have not called a lawyer because i have read on here that the day you call a lawyer is the day you knew and anything after that would be fraud. I just want to make sure so I can make the most of this situation. I dont mean fraud! I mean plan this out correctly to our benefit 2 weeks ago it would not of even crossed my mind that we would be filing!

[StartingOver08]

Welcome to the Forum! You came to the right place for your questions. We are here to help you however we can to the best of our abilities.

You do need to stop using the cards right now. The convenience checks, when cashed are cash advances and if you use them to transfer balances (pay a c card with the convenience check) it is considered a 'balance transfer'. There needs to be at least 70 days on the BT's and 90's day without charges. Since you have been charging up until last week, you may want to consider some sort of payments on the cc's for the next month or two so it does not look like you charged up the cards without the intent to repay.

The more time you can put between charging and filing, the better it is for you. You can do your research here and wait a while to start interviewing attorneys, if you can. It will take some time to find the right attorney and fill out your paperwork.

You can use the interval to gather your financials, make copies of bank statements, cc statements etc so that when it is time to file, you have everything documented.

The important part is putting plenty of time between the last charges and your filing and learning to live without credit cards. In fact, the next 3 to 6 months will be a good time to learn how to budget without your cards. Don't let the cc co's push you into a BK. One of the important things about filing BK is to file when it is most advantageous to YOU.

[deadmonetree]

so say i hire a lawyer in march... how long before he files? will he sit on it for a few months? or do they file in the same month? I guess to me it would seem everyone would 1. hire lawyer
2. get everything in order and dont pay any cc
3. have your lawyer wait a year so nothing is questionable
4. file

is this how it should be done? i am pretty sure nothing i have is questionable except 2 balance tranfers but it seems to me that this is the best way to do it?? a i wrong? I find it hard to believe cc co. would just be in limbo and allow it but i dont know.

[StartingOver08]

You can go a long time before the cc's actually do anything. Usually they start with phone calls and letters. There are lots of threads around here on what to do with the phone calls (don't answer - have them go to voice mail that clearly identifies your name).

Their goal is to scare you into making a payment. Your goal is to not make a payment. So why talk to them. Just gear up for the calls and make provisions for the voice mail.

This is your time for strategic thinking. The attorney costs money to retain so most of us had to save that money first. Then because you have to pay in full for a CH 7 filing, we had to save that too. If you know that, plan for it. Use the money that is not going to credit cards to live on and save for the attorney. Count down the days from the insider payments, because you know that will be an issue already. Just make sure not to make any more issues (additional charges and balance transfers) and you will be ok.

[deadmonetree]

so to do this right because of the pymnts to mom i should hire a lawyer. not pay credit cards and wait for 12 months? and any objections would be past the 12 months right and all the stress and worry should be for nothing right? willa lawyer take the calls for a year? and once again i am not trying to fraud anyone or anything. i just want to make the most of a bad situation!

[StartingOver08]

If I were you, I would wait a while to actually hire the attorney (it requires a check/payment). You might want to see if you can wait 6 months or so before you actually retain your attorney. Start putting away funds. Stop paying the credit cards. The only reason I say wait a while is because you just now paid your mom about a month ago, right? It might be a question of intent. I would put 6 months between the payment to mom and the hiring of the attorney. Then another 6 months to the filing. So really you only have 6 months of calls to ignore.

[Trixie007]

Also, take care of any big pending medical issues in the meantime... just in case there's anything big. Just a thought.

[deadmonetree]

are you talking like dental issues? would i need to maintain payments for 6 months before taking to lawyer or just the cards with balance transfers?

[Dst1]

You need to understand the distinction between fraud and an objection. Bankruptcy fraud (outside of the 70/90 days) is when you either lie or hide assets on any of the forms or in any of the conversations under oath in the bankruptcy itself. It is something between you and the court. A creditor objection is a dispute between you and the creditor.

A creditor can object for any reason, although creditor fraud is the most likely reason they will object. A creditor objection is not a claim of bankruptcy fraud (even if the creditor suspects that fraud is going on). There is no magic number of months you can wait before filing BK that will eliminate the opportunity for a creditor to object. Most people suggest at least three months (that puts you outside the 90 day window) up to 12 months. The longer it is the less likely it is that the creditor will object because the harder it is to prove. And just because a creditor objects doesn't mean that the court will find in the creditors favor. The worst thing that can happen if a creditor objects is that you won't be able to discharge that specific debt.

The last line is critical. Creditors object on an individual basis. Just because one creditor objects doesn't mean any of the others will.

I think it is wise to continue to pay the minimum amount due on a card for at least 90 days after your last charge on that specific card.

[Trixie007]

It was really more of a thought that if you have any big issues, I would make sure any medical issues pending are addressed before you "play your BK card" as they say. I wouldn't use BT checks to pay for them though. Sorry, this maybe just occurred to me because I just had surgery and am waiting for the bills to start rolling in. Never mind, I think I'll just go take some more drugs lol.

[ChevyGuyNC]

Okay, I'm really confused now...

We also just came to the BK conclusion.

All our CC's are pretty much maxed, but since we've been paying, there's usually a little here and there, always <$100. Like last night we ate at CiCi's and put $12 on a CC. And I picked up dry cleaning today, $10. Will this be a problem? It's not like we've bought big screen TV's or something. No balance transfers.

Do we have to stop using the CC's totally for 90 days before filing? If so, do we just stop paying and save the money for filing/atty fees?

Ugh... I know that this is the best answer for us, but it just seems so daunting right now...

[deadmonetree]

so to clarify I am not trying to fraud anyone at all.. I paid my mom back from bt checks on debt she took from me when we were buying a house so she put it in her name i made the payments well i put it back in my name. And we have been making payments and are up to date but after looking at what we would need to survive (my husband thinks his company has another round of layoffs coming) we looked at our budget and we noticed that our house and utilities, car payment and food take up the paycheck and i have no idea how we have been paying any credit cards. that is how bankruptcy has come into play and i am trying to get all the info i can get so that i dont make mistakes. I want to do it as smart as i can because i realize the credit report is going to be in the crapper for quite a while and no i dont want more credit cards but EVERYTHING is linked to that stupid number

[StartingOver08]

so to clarify I am not trying to fraud anyone at all.. I paid my mom back from bt checks on debt she took from me when we were buying a house so she put it in her name i made the payments well i put it back in my name.

This is your problem. You need to wait at least a year. This is an insider payment. You are going to want to make the payments on these cards for at least three months from the time you transferred the debt back into your name. The Trustee is going to want to see that entire transaction (from you to your mom and then back to you all within a couple of months so you could buy the house - right?). You will want to make sure to wait at least 12 months at a minimum to file BK. Besides didn't you just close on your house last month?

[deadmonetree]

no i bought my house a little over a year ago she transfered some of my debt because the escrow or loan people wanted some of my debt gone. so she has had it and i have been paying it. Long story short she likes holding it over my head i owe her. remember i have your debt so you should do this blah blah blah. so we took it back not even knowing we were in this deep.

[StartingOver08]

Sorry. I had you and someone else confused!

I would wait until you are 12 months from the time you took the debt back from your mom. They will see a large balance suddenly appearing on your credit cards and want to know what you bought with that...it was about $12k right?