They are going to throw the book at me!

[Overmylimit]

I have been watching and posting here for awhile. I have laid out my scenario in threads as to my situation and I have had awesome feedback from everyone here. Thanks to all! My attorney has had all of my paperwork for sometime and he is suppose to file any day now so I am getting nervous. The main reason for my being nervous is the sheer amouts that we are going to discharge. I keep reading most posts but nothing seems to relate to what I am dealing with. I read posts about being nervous about possible fraud...like cash advance from a credit line for 1000 dollars....I used all of my lines of credit for my business but there were times we wrote checks for 10k or more to cover expenses. There was a lot of money moving around and even though I was using it for business I just think they will throw the book at me, especially when I look at others who have had problems for much smaller amounts. My Attorney acts like no big deal just another case (which is good I guess) but I am stressin hard over it all.

[ansky0007]

We are trying to discharge $300k+ and my lawyer told me also it was nothing to be worried about. Well so far he has been wrong. I have creditors coming after me and I have a trustee that is now auditing me. Make sure you are squeekie clean and wait as long as you can.

[magyar123]

We are trying to discharge $300k+ and my lawyer told me also it was nothing to be worried about. Well so far he has been wrong. I have creditors coming after me and I have a trustee that is now auditing me. Make sure you are squeekie clean and wait as long as you can.

Whoa - hold on - if you have already filed and had your 341 creditors coming after you are violating the automatic stay.
Trstees auditing you is completely different. They can.

[Overmylimit]

I have over 500k in unsecured and this is exactly what I'm afraid of. I know its going to be one huge mess. My Attorney seems to think it will be routine.

[ansky0007]

Whoa - hold on - if you have already filed and had your 341 creditors coming after you are violating the automatic stay.
Trstees auditing you is completely different. They can.

They are sending letters to my lawyer and not myself so they are not violating and its getting ugly. I was upfront with my lawyer with everything and it was no big deal to them. Now after he is fully paid and its getting ugly all he can say is did you think with owing $300k they were not going to try everything to get some of it back. Boy his tone has changed and he wants me to start considering settling with some companies and paying some back over a period of time. Lawyer does not understand that I have no money which is why I went BK in the first place. I should have waited until I was getting sued to file. I listened to them and filed earlier than I wanted to.

[Keebler]

They are sending letters to my lawyer and not myself so they are not violating and its getting ugly. I was upfront with my lawyer with everything and it was no big deal to them. Now after he is fully paid and its getting ugly all he can say is did you think with owing $300k they were not going to try everything to get some of it back. Boy his tone has changed and he wants me to start considering settling with some companies and paying some back over a period of time. Lawyer does not understand that I have no money which is why I went BK in the first place. I should have waited until I was getting sued to file. I listened to them and filed earlier than I wanted to.

I don't mean to be negative but I am painfully aware of how the attorney gets paid the same no matter what the outcome is. In fact, they get paid MORE if the case gets messy and adversarial actions get filed. They also work in a field where they virtually never get repeat customers so there's little motivation to be straight with you up front and they couldn't care less if you leave happy.

I spend a bunch of time and a bit of money on PACER to see which attornies filed what kinds of cases and how often they had less than ideal outcomes. It was one of the few sources of unbiased statistics and I think it helped me in the end. I only wish that everyone could sort through the mounds of abstract information like I did.

I wish I had better advice to avoid a problem before it happens.

[Never_Again]

OK, take a deep breath and relax a bit...

I did not discharge as much as you are looking to, but I discharged more than many that I read about on here. I think that so much depends on your trustee, your district, and your lawyer.

I had no problem. Everything went fine. I ran a business at one time as well. Most people in business bankruptcy have dealt with large amounts. Obviously, it did not work out, and that is why they are there.

As for adversarial proceedings, a creditor must prove with "clear and convincing" evidence that fraud occurred for you to be denied a discharge in their debt. That is a pretty high standard of evidence. And, if they do not prove it, they are responsible for your legal fees. That is a pretty big reason not to file a frivolous suit against a creditor. For that reason, there are not APs very often. Besides, it comes down to the old "blood from a stone" saying... how much good money are they going to throw after bad, when a trustee has found few or no assets?

If your income is over median, you will probably be looked at by the US trustee. However, as far as debt level, it doesn't seem to be as big of an issue.

As for lawyers getting paid more, yes, that is true. However, they would rather have the quick dollar from your fees for filing, than to take an AP. Yes, they probably will get paid by the creditor if it is denied, but, face it... you are bankrupt, and can not afford any more legal fees.

So, take another breath, relax, and do what you must. This is the road that you need to go if a discharge of debt is what you are looking for. So, worrying about it will change nothing. I would bet that you will be just fine.

[BROKENN]

I think you are business yeah? That is what makes it different too. We discharged over a M and half was unsecured. Our lawyer did a fantastic job, we paid him a lot and he was also very confident.

It went very smooth. The numbers for our future was what the trustee wanted to know about. Make sure those come into the right brackets. And I know relax is useless But do hang in there.

[BROKENN]

I have over 500k in unsecured and this is exactly what I'm afraid of. I know its going to be one huge mess. My Attorney seems to think it will be routine.

We too moved a lot of money around. And it sounds like your numbers are close to ours.

PS We were also required to close the biz. Are you?

[ansky0007]

I have a small e-commerce website... All my debt $300k was unsecured and I was personally responsible. Originally I lost my $90k job which started all of this 5 years ago, After a year of trying to get a job and getting nowhere I started my own business. Everyone said new businesses would not be profittable until a few years if I can hang in there. Last year the business made $24k and this year around $60k so the business has headed in the right direction. But to continue living and paying the bills while I tried to grow this business I have accumulated $300k in debt. I am my only employee so if they take my business I will be completely left with nothing. The trustee wanted me to give them a value for my business but I had no idea... I have $0 inventory and I only use drop-shippers to fulfilll my orders so maybe that is why they are digging deep.

[Overmylimit]

Thanks Guys!

We still aren't sure whether we are going to close the business or not. I might close it and re open a different company because we still have business and customers. My Lawyer seems really confident also so hopefully he will make it go smooth.

[FloridaGuy]

Good Luck

Overmylimit... good luck. I too intended in trying to remain in my same industry (Even if I had to close the current business). I've been in the same industry almost 18 years, lots of friends and contacts, and customers.

However, now I'm screwed! Due to being unable to pay vendors, them not being able to contact me due to the automatic stay, I'm sure I've been blackballed so to speak. Due to being WAY behind in rent, I new I would have to close the store, but in the early days of the process thought I may be able to relocate and work through it. In my biz, I HAVE to have a retail space. There's no one who would rent to me in my situation.

So now, I have been able to liquidate most of the assets, but still have $40K worth of inventory in my garage, Attempted to move some at XMas.... but spend more in advertising than I sold. (unusual for the holiday season... but probably due to the current economy)

Sorry if I'm bringing you down... but I'm bitter. Burned out from this whole process. We are surrendering virtually EVERYTHING, homes, cars, furnishings. We plan on relocating for our fresh start back to the midwest, but saving money is almost impossible.

On a positive note It could very well be possible depending on the type of biz. So go for it! I'll check some of your other posts!

[BROKENN]

Thanks Guys!

We still aren't sure whether we are going to close the business or not. I might close it and re open a different company because we still have business and customers. My Lawyer seems really confident also so hopefully he will make it go smooth.

After the 341. It's a new thought *later* IMHO
Google business after bankruptcy.

[BROKENN]

Overmylimit... good luck. I too intended in trying to remain in my same industry (Even if I had to close the current business). I've been in the same industry almost 18 years, lots of friends and contacts, and customers.

However, now I'm screwed! Due to being unable to pay vendors, them not being able to contact me due to the automatic stay, I'm sure I've been blackballed so to speak. Due to being WAY behind in rent, I new I would have to close the store, but in the early days of the process thought I may be able to relocate and work through it. In my biz, I HAVE to have a retail space. There's no one who would rent to me in my situation.

So now, I have been able to liquidate most of the assets, but still have $40K worth of inventory in my garage, Attempted to move some at XMas.... but spend more in advertising than I sold. (unusual for the holiday season... but probably due to the current economy)

Sorry if I'm bringing you down... but I'm bitter. Burned out from this whole process. We are surrendering virtually EVERYTHING, homes, cars, furnishings. We plan on relocating for our fresh start back to the midwest, but saving money is almost impossible.

I am so sorry this is going rough. Giving up everything is HARD. I know
We too moved, so I wish you all the luck you can get and it will be better when this is finally over.

You may be surprised how much you can create and get going after your move and a fresh environment. Cash talks at renting or anything. No one seems to be too upset at my BK when rebuilding over here. We're now close to the midwest. And it is soooo much cheaper.

Keep trying to save. You and yours are in my thoughts

[FloridaGuy]

Hi Brokenn!

Thanks for the encouragement!