Zales Jewelry Question

[BKinGA]

Actually, you're right. But it's that you would need to avoid the lien, and you can't do that on that type of purchase. Your only option is to Motion to Value, to make it worth the current market value, and then redeem it. Or, just return it.

Im still seeking answers to these questions. Thanks again

Can a Motion to Value be filed on a Chapter 7? I searched the web, but the references I found were for a Chapter 13.

If it can be filed with a 7, is that filed as a part of the Chapter 7 or seperately and if seperately is that held after the meeting of creditors or does it cause the 341 meeting to be postponed?

Or if I dont file the motion to value, and return the jewelry can I use the price that I paid for them plus tax?

And finally when does any negotiation occur on the remaining balance to be redeemed? During or after the 341 meeting?

[justbroke]

Can a Motion to Value be filed on a Chapter 7? I searched the web, but the references I found were for a Chapter 13.

You could, but it's not used often for smaller value items. It is definitely used in Chapter 7 asset cases. I would consider your jewelry "smaller" value items.

If it can be filed with a 7, is that filed as a part of the Chapter 7 or seperately and if seperately is that held after the meeting of creditors or does it cause the 341 meeting to be postponed?

This isn't part of the 341. This would be a contested matter and handled separately. It would delay the close. Again, this is why if it's a small amount to argue over, it's not worth getting into a Motion to Value.

Or if I dont file the motion to value, and return the jewelry can I use the price that I paid for them plus tax?

Well.

Let me back up a bit. The first thing is, you need to try to be a no asset case as best you can. If you can cover this jewelry with exemptions, as well as protect all your other assets (with equity) with exemptions, then you get a no asset case!

[allavdj]

Has absolutely nothing to do with "talk about negative things here".

Has to do with reality.

There are very very few criminal contempt citations in Bankruptcy Court and this practice is even questioned as to whether the Bankruptcy Court even has the power to find someone in criminal contempt.

Most of that is differed to the U.S. District Court, which by the way, hears criminal and civil cases, including appeals from the Bankruptcy Court.

I just don't like spreading misinformation and unreasonably scaring people by telling them that if they don't pay their credit cards, they'll be arrested. (Stated as an example.)

I said worst case scenario...how is that misinformation. And on that same note, I didn't say anything remotely close to "if they don't pay their credit cards they will go to jail". I simply stated the bottom line, worst case scenario which still is: The trustee could be a total ass and force the OP to pay for the jewelery, return the jewelery, or be held in contempt of court. That is, in fact, the worst case scenario. And on a total side note, you bet they can hold you in contempt, if they couldn't force you to act without consequence of inaction, what power would the court have? "Pay us or we are gonna call you nasty names!" I don't think so...

[justbroke]

I said worst case scenario...how is that misinformation. And on that same note, I didn't say anything remotely close to "if they don't pay their credit cards they will go to jail". I simply stated the bottom line, worst case scenario which still is: The trustee could be a total ass and force the OP to pay for the jewelery, return the jewelery, or be held in contempt of court. That is, in fact, the worst case scenario.

You said "criminal" which is an entirely different matter and is not what happens in bankruptcy cases, unless it's outright bankruptcy fraud, which gets referred to the U.S. District Court for prosecution.

Again, my only concern is your gratuitous use of the term "criminal" when referring to a, for all practical purposes, civil contempt matter... even if it would get that far.

A worst case scenario, in this particular matter, is that they must pay the market value of the jewelry as of the petition date.

I see no criminal contempt even remotely in this case.

So why even mention a criminal record (implication of criminal contempt). I don't ever see it happening, and can't find one case to support that notion.

My suggestion was, and will continue to be, what's in the scope of the poster's question and the Bankruptcy Court. I would not go on to speculate that it could end up in U.S. District Court and blah blah blah... just to make a point. If I did, I would cite recent and relevant caselaw supporting the notion that failure to pay $1,200 will get you in criminal contempt of the U.S. Bankruptcy Court.

What would happen is, your case gets dismissed.

And on a total side note, you bet they can hold you in contempt, if they couldn't force you to act without consequence of inaction, what power would the court have? "Pay us or we are gonna call you nasty names!" I don't think so...

Um, the equitable powers of the court include sanctions which could include civil fines and they can just dismiss your case and leave you to the wolves. That's their power.

In other words... case dismissed with prejudice.

[BKinGA]

You could, but it's not used often for smaller value items. It is definitely used in Chapter 7 asset cases. I would consider your jewelry "smaller" value items.

This isn't part of the 341. This would be a contested matter and handled separately. It would delay the close. Again, this is why if it's a small amount to argue over, it's not worth getting into a Motion to Value.

Well.

Let me back up a bit. The first thing is, you need to try to be a no asset case as best you can. If you can cover this jewelry with exemptions, as well as protect all your other assets (with equity) with exemptions, then you get a no asset case!

Okay, now Im confused by your response. (Sorry)

I filed as a no asset case. But I thought from the prior posts that in the case of Zales even exemptions (jewelry and the wild card) wouldnt work with a secured lienholder such as Zales.

Is this true or not?

In Georgia - Chapter 7 - No Assets filed
Zales balance 1200

Right now my attorney has my jewelry amount listed as 100 (I found out yesterday when I went to his office and got a copy of what he had filed). Should I have him raise this amount to 500 to cover at least some of the balance I owe Zales? Or?

[justbroke]

Right now my attorney has my jewelry amount listed as 100 (I found out yesterday when I went to his office and got a copy of what he had filed). Should I have him raise this amount to 500 to cover at least some of the balance I owe Zales? Or?

Perfect.

So, you're a no asset case, so you have no worries. Your lawyer valued the jewelry at $100... PERFECT!

Now, you just say you'll redeem it and you'll pay Zales $100.

Done.

[michele71]

My 2 Cents..I just filed 13 and had 2 Zales accounts and they were both sold to collection agencies I wasnt even 30 days late on either account. As soon as I told them I filed within 10 days they sold the accounts. I owed over 10k on one and 17k on another---they didn't want the jewelry back...I didnt have alot of it. So you may not even hear from Zales.

[justbroke]

My 2 Cents..I just filed 13 and had 2 Zales accounts and they were both sold to collection agencies I wasnt even 30 days late on either account. As soon as I told them I filed within 10 days they sold the accounts. I owed over 10k on one and 17k on another---they didn't want the jewelry back...I didnt have alot of it. So you may not even hear from Zales.

Exactly.