Yikes, please help decipher!

[Kingxray]

I have this posted on another thread but I checked PACER today and there is a new entry on my flags. They read REAF, MEANSYES, MEANSYES, NODISCH.

We are surrending one home that has equity to pay creditors and reaffirming our current home.

Does NODISCH mean no discharge on our current home or no discharge on our bankruptcy? As far as I can tell our 341 was pretty uneventful. No lawyer to speak to until after the New Year, please help.

[justbroke]

NODISCH probably tells the system not to automatically discharge your case.

You can't be auto discharged, probably because you're an asset case.

[Kingxray]

I am still learning my way around Pacer but from what I could tell the trustee filed a motion of presumption of abuse today and recommended our case be dismissed or converted. What abuse? What does this mean? We did everything by the book. Scared stiff.

[justbroke]

I am still learning my way around Pacer but from what I could tell the trustee filed a motion of presumption of abuse today and recommended our case be dismissed or converted. What abuse? What does this mean? We did everything by the book. Scared stiff.

Ahh... abuse.

It means that the Trustee believes you have the means (MEANSYES) to fund a Chapter 13, and that you should not be allowed a discharge under Chapter 7.

This could be bad news. However, your lawyer may have decided that you were a borderline Chapter 7 and is willing to fight for the Chapter 7.

You and your lawyer have work to do!!!

[wonkettegirl]

I have this posted on another thread but I checked PACER today and there is a new entry on my flags. They read REAF, MEANSYES, MEANSYES, NODISCH..

I'd be most worried about the "meansyes." Apparently the trustee does NOT think you qualify for a 7 and wants to force you into a 13. If you were borderline 7 (e.g., if you make over the median but qualified for a 7 based on your monthly expenses), you will be called upon to justify your 7.

Yes, you and your attorney have work to do! This doesn't mean a death sentence for your 7, because the trustee may be persuaded that a 7 is appropriate under your circumstances. Until you and your lawyer can talk, I'd advise gathering up all of your financial documents and organizing them for an easy presentation to the trustee. Hopefully your attorney will know more when you talk with him/her.

Keep us posted! Maybe you just have a particularly hard-assed trustee who routinely "pulls" borderline 7s and makes them run a few extra laps around the track before backing down and agreeing to the 7.

[Kingxray]

Thanks for your honest responses. I believe we probably are a borderline 7 and qualify only because of our monthly expenses. The day of our 341 the lawyers were commenting on how the trustee was "in rare form today". That scared me right off the bat. We really don't want to go 13 but I guess I better read up on it until we can speak to our lawyer after the new year.
Thanks again.

[Help!]

Presumed Abuse

I am still learning my way around Pacer but from what I could tell the trustee filed a motion of presumption of abuse today and recommended our case be dismissed or converted. What abuse? What does this mean? We did everything by the book. Scared stiff.

Ok King, if you want a Ch. 7 discharge you have your work cut out for you. If you do nothing, your case WILL be dismissed/converted. Presumed abuse is not an accusation of dishonesty or wrongdoing. Do you remember the calculations on the means test that gave a numerical result that allowed you to check one of two boxes ("presumption arises" or "presumption does not arise")? The US Trustee disagrees with this calculation. Your lawyer needs to communicate with the UST ASAP to see how they feel your income/expenses differ from what you have used in that calculation.

Because abuse is presumed, it is up to you to prove that you are entitled to a Ch. 7 discharge. It's a "guilty until proven innocent" scenario and it will no doubt take a lot of work on your part to get through it. The question is how opposed to Ch. 13 are you? If you know in your heart that you should be a 7 and you have nothing to hide, fight it! If you took liberties with your petition, don't have good documentation or do not want every facet of your financial life in the past 6 months to one year scrutinized, a 13 may be safer. If you fight it, several of us have gotten through presumed abuse successfully and I will help in any way I can. Stay calm!

[BKOnce]

I have this posted on another thread but I checked PACER today and there is a new entry on my flags. They read REAF, MEANSYES, MEANSYES, NODISCH.We are surrending one home that has equity to pay creditors and reaffirming our current home.

Does NODISCH mean no discharge on our current home or no discharge on our bankruptcy? As far as I can tell our 341 was pretty uneventful. No lawyer to speak to until after the New Year, please help.

REAF= Re-affirm = yes?, MEANSYES = passed means test = yes?, NODISCh= No discharge yet = yes?

[Kingxray]

Thanks so much Help. I truly feel that I was honest on our means test but do not have a copy to refer to. I gave it to the lawyer and his staff entered our info. Hopefully it was done correctly.

Initially the trustee checked the box that no presumption arises. Why did she change her mind? Is it because my dad's lawyer showed up at our 341? I thought the UST could care less about that.

Anyway thanks again. I really can't see how we can go 13. Only if we don't eat or do anything again.

[Help!]

Here's where the work part comes in. You can download a copy of your petition from PACER. Read through the case history - you might be able to determine what's going on without waiting for a response from your attorney. Often the UST will scrutinize a case when there is a creditor present at the 341. It draws attention and prompts them to look more closely at the petition, maybe even to the extent of an audit (without actually calling it that). If you plan to fight it, you need to go through the means test and start getting documentation together to account for the numbers you used.

[Help!]

REAF= Re-affirm = yes?, MEANSYES = passed means test = yes?, NODISCh= No discharge yet = yes?

MEANSYES = you have the means to repay your debt (failed means test)
MEANSNO = means test passed
NODISCH = do not discharge
REAFFIRM Y = at least one debt is to be reaffirmed

[B65]

when was your 341?

how long after was it you saw the flags? I thought the UST had around 10 days after the 341 to try to convert you?

Bev

[Kingxray]

Our 341 was Dec. 18. I noticed the flags last night (12/29) and then today
(12/30) she filed the "presumption of abuse". Also filed today was the creditor (my dad) "request for documents" This is just going from bad to worse and my lawyer won't be back until Mon., so Happy New Year to me, ugh.

[Help!]

Our 341 was Dec. 18. I noticed the flags last night (12/29) and then today
(12/30) she filed the "presumption of abuse". Also filed today was the creditor (my dad) "request for documents" This is just going from bad to worse and my lawyer won't be back until Mon., so Happy New Year to me, ugh.

At least you know what's going on now and know that you're going to need to get documentation together. That gives you more time to do what needs to be done. You need to move FAST. The UST has only 30 days from the date the statement of presumed abuse is filed to make the next move. One of three things will happen at the 30 day mark: (1) UST will file a motion to dismiss or a motion to convert (2) UST will file statement of no presumed abuse or (3) UST will file a declination formally "declining" to prevent your Ch. 7 from being dismissed/converted. It's going to suck - I won't lie to you. Get ready to jump through hoops and gather a mound of paperwork. If you don't have access to the UST Additional Documentation list yet, I can help get you started.

[Kingxray]

Yes Help, I could use your help. At least now I feel I have a fighting chance. You have a link to where I can get those additional documents that would be great. Also, can I find a copy of my means test at Pacer? My lawyer has my original. I thought I was looking at it last night but today I could not find it.