Research Project (Casino Markers and BK)

[catleg]

markers are dischargable in bankruptcy in NJ. it's a good thing too, because when you don't pay it's guaranteed that they're going to sue you for it.

[catleg]

Here's a sample case involving a casino. They really hate to lose.

http://www.fedbar.org/Bankr_Richmond.pdf

[catleg]

Here is an interesting observation about casino markers in BK.

Generally casino markers have language on them which says, in effect, that "I promise that I have an amount of funds on deposit in a bank to make this check good".

I have recently seen a case where a customer filed a chapter 7 with several casino creditors. One of them filed an AP against the debtor which said that the customer engaged in fraud in incurring the debt, since the debtor did not have funds in a bank account or any reasonable expectation for same. The debtor settled the AP by agreeing the debt was non-dischargable.

This person had 4 casino creditors, 1 in NV, 1 in IN, and 2 in NJ. The AP came from one of the NJ casinos. (Borgata to be specific).

The remaining debts were discharged. (including the other 3 casinos).

[redhead9]

markers are dischargable in bankruptcy in NJ. it's a good thing too, because when you don't pay it's guaranteed that they're going to sue you for it.

Anything you can help with more specifics. I am awaiting discharge but have 3 APs from NJ casnos re: markers. I have taknen markers repreatedly over the last 20 years. All have been paid back on time. Lost my job and these last markers are part of my bk chp 7- with o assests.
Thanks.

[catleg]

First of all here's a link I found to some lawyer's blog on this topic:

Discharging Gambling Debts: 10 Points to Know

Where they will come after you, Borgata especially, is if you didn't have enough cash in the bank (any bank) to cover the marker when it was written, or any reasonable prospects (like a paycheck) to expect to be able to cover it.

If they think this is the case they'll file an AP and the debt is non-dischargeable. Doesn't put you in jail, just means you'll be on the hook for it. They can't get blood from a stone.

From reading cases in NJ it looks like Borgata is the main one that does AP's. The others might let it slide...might.

[redhead9]

Always paid - never defaulted. I was poractive in informing the casinos about losing job and offerered to pay something until i caould get back on my feet. Paid a couple of months but then had no funds- filed bk ch 7. now they are initiating aps against me. Will likely be discharged on all else.
Thanks for your update

[catleg]

Here's an interesting link on a guy who is said to be Las Vegas' biggest loser. And he is being charged with fraud by the DA's office for not paying markers.

Biggest Loser

P.S. I guess the guy isn't in chapter 7 but just wanted to cover the DA charge angle.

[arthoralbert]

I can't understand so plz explain briefly.

[catleg]

Do you have a casino credit line?
Have you taken advances against it?
Those are markers.
Casinos tend to be among the more aggressive creditors.

[MSbklawyer]

Mississippi treats them like any other unsecured debt. To the extent they use post-dated checks, the law here is that a post-dated check is not treated criminally as it would be if you wrote a worthless check at Wal-Mart. The rationale is that when a person takes a post-dated check, he KNOWS that it is no good, else why would it have to be post-dated. Thus it is a loan and a promise to repay later and not a contemporaneous exchange of a valid bank draft for goods or services.

I recently had a case where a lady had over $100K in casino markers alone from one of our many gulf coast casinos. They were discharged and not one peep out of the casino about it.

[catleg]

There is a casino in NJ which requests bank account statements from debtors banks in an effort to determine if debtor violated contract terms which state "debtor represents that he has funds in a bank (or reasonable expectation thereof) to redeem this instrument" or words to that effect. If the debtor fails this test then they are threatened with an AP and the debtor usually stipulates to non dischargeability of the debt. Can't say that I blame them, on the one hand, yet they do profit off of a sickness, on the other hand.

[MSbklawyer]

There is a casino in NJ which requests bank account statements from debtors banks in an effort to determine if debtor violated contract terms which state "debtor represents that he has funds in a bank (or reasonable expectation thereof) to redeem this instrument" or words to that effect. If the debtor fails this test then they are threatened with an AP and the debtor usually stipulates to non dischargeability of the debt. Can't say that I blame them, on the one hand, yet they do profit off of a sickness, on the other hand.

Anyone who goes to such lengths to get money to gamble, has got a problem.

[catleg]

I was once speaking to an executive in a casino, and he was discussing a new property somewhere. When I asked him if they planned to offer credit, his response was "without credit, you cannot have a casino".
The party with the dirtiest hands, IMHO, are the people who run those cash advance booths in the casinos.