Clarification please

[jeb]

I have gotten about half way through the NOLO ebook with some great info.

But I am not clear about income and the things they can't get to like SS, disability payments, etc.

Except for taxes and a couple of other things, they can't attached those payments to a person but does this mean in doing all the figuring these payments are not considered income?

In other words, if you had $1000.00 of these type payments as your only monthly monies, for considering your bankruptcy does this mean you have $1000.00 to make payments to creditors or do you have NO monies to make payments?

As usual, tks for you time to help on the forum - jb

[GreenInkOnPaper]

Those types of monies are exempt from seizure by the trustee.

[TEW]

you have to list all sources of income

[InDebtNeedHelp]

He is asking if social security and disability payments count as monthly income that must be accounted for in the means test. Not, are they safe? Not, do they have to be listed? Do they count as income?

[GreenInkOnPaper]

He is asking if social security and disability payments count as monthly income that must be accounted for in the means test. Not, are they safe? Not, do they have to be listed? Do they count as income?

Ok. Do they?

[justbroke]

For the purposes of the means test...

The money received from social security is not income.

The money received from private disability funds (like LTD/STD) are income.

[TEW]

ok. Do they?

yes

[Doghouse]

SS and disability does not count as income for your means test. Just like UI. I am now unemployed and will be receiving unemployment insurance checks of 450/week here in California and they will NOT count as income for all the weeks I will be receiving the checks.

[jeb]

Tks - I think.

But I'm still not clear - just a little thick, I guess.

If someone had $1000.00 SS (or another of the exempted payments) and had $1200.00 in monthly payments of which $700.00 were CCard payments and $500.00 were other expenses (rent, ele, etc.), does this mean that they would have $500.00 available to pay the unsecured creditors OR, since these are exempted payments does this mean that they have NO $500.00 with which to pay the Ccards?

I'm still not sure that is clear either.

Let me try it this way -

I know they can't get to exempted income like SS BUT do they still count that income as monies coming in and available to pay unsecured debts?

Or, if one is unemployed but has some exempted income, are they considered as having zero available to pay unsecured debts?

Clear as mud, right? - jb

[TEW]

I think the words are “can not be attached or assigned” That just means they can not take that benefit from you to pay creditors. It still counts as income. You just report it in different blocks

[Doghouse]

Since I just had a somewhat similar discussion with my attorney yesterday as it pertains to the unemployment checks I will be receiving, the answer is that it's treated as ZERO income. The exempted UI check is for my living expenses. It will be reported that I received it but will not count as extra monies or income that can be used to pay unsecured creditors.

[jeb]

I'm going to try one more time -

If one is unemployed but has some exempted income, are they considered as having zero available to pay unsecured debts?

If one has $1000.00 in exempted income, has $500.00 in "regular" monthly expenses (Food, ele, etc.) and $800.00 in Ccard bills which equals $1200.00 a month total bills.

You would be $200.00 short of making payments.

HOWEVER, if one stops making the $800.00 in Ccard bills one has an extra $500.00/month.

My question is do they consider that you have $500.00 to pay Ccards and therefore, NOT able to file Chp. 7 even though this is exempted income?

(Boy, this really got complicated. - jb

[TEW]

I'm going to try one more time -

If one is unemployed but has some exempted income, are they considered as having zero available to pay unsecured debts?

If one has $1000.00 in exempted income, has $500.00 in "regular" monthly expenses (Food, ele, etc.) and $800.00 in Ccard bills which equals $1200.00 a month total bills.

You would be $200.00 short of making payments.

HOWEVER, if one stops making the $800.00 in Ccard bills one has an extra $500.00/month.

My question is do they consider that you have $500.00 to pay Ccards and therefore, NOT able to file Chp. 7 even though this is exempted income?

(Boy, this really got complicated. - jb

I ONLY have exempt income you count ALL sources of income. on your forms the exempt thing has nothing to do with your forms it has to do with them not being able to take it away.

[jeb]

I give up! - jb

[lrprn]

I give up! - jb

The reason you are getting different answers is that there is no one consistent answer for your question across the U.S. due to different interpretations of the Means Test law in different district bk courts.

This is a question that requires opinions from 3-4 experienced bk lawyers in your area who are familiar with how these exempt income sources are handled in your local court. Most bk lawyers give free initial consultations, even if you plan to file without a lawyer (pro se). Set up a few appointments - it's a golden opportunity to ask all the questions that are nagging at you and get reliable answers from knowledgeable licensed attorneys.