Filing Chapter 7 Monday

[evilxs]

I got the call from the lawyer and we're filing chapter 7 Monday. We fully expect the case to go to court. What was your court like? What kinds of questions might I get or what might come up?

I am well over the means test, but there is nothing frivolous here. He actually said he does not expect any objections to the means, it is the totality of the situation that will put us in court. He says we'll be fighting the presumption of abuse, but thinks we have a shot of winning. I'm pretty nervous but willing to fight. Any advice?

Who here has gone to court on a chapter 7?

[evilxs]

To make that clearer I make salary wise a lot more than the median income but he was able to get the means test to allow a 7. He expects no objections to the means test but instead to the high amount of household income we have (120k). I know it will be a tough battle but like he said he has never seen a situation like this.

[soleprop]

i have no idea what your situation is and therefore have no comment

[evilxs]

I'm actually looking for feedback from others who have had to go to court on their chapter 7's...

No one?

[TEW]

Evilxs
It’s a little hard to give feed back on this we really don’t have enough information.
I am above means but filed chapter 7 It all has to do with your allowed expenses the means test is only the first half your Schedule J you is what tells the tail. You have to look worse off after BK then before so to speak. If not the presumption of abuse arises and you go chapter 13. It’s not so cut and dry
If there is no objection and I think you mean presumption of abuse does not arise then you don’t go to court. You go to a 341 meeting they ask you a couple and questions that you can find all over this board. 60 days latter you’re done.
How many lawyers did you see before you hired this one?

[Doghouse]

Being under or over the median income is just one part of the evaluation process to see if you can file chapter 7. My last 6 month avg has me at appx 120K yearly income as well (even though I was unemployed first 3 months of the year). However, as head of household in a 3 person household and with all associated expenses and debt (over 115K unsecured plus 1st, 2nd and 3rd mortgage plus car loan), I am told I would also qualify for Chapter 7 by two of three lawyers that looked at my situation and numbers (both lawyers had over 25 years BK law experience each). Third lawyer wants retainer fee before actually saying for sure. I also used a free online calculator that says I passed. I will retain a lawyer next week and do the offical means test.

So, high salary does not mean a definite presumption of abuse. Every situation is different.

[evilxs]

100k first mortg, 15k second
3 households to support
65k student loans
15k/yr legal fees
3 current lawsuits
One threatened lawsuit (letter from the lawyer)
None of the lawsuits bankruptcy related and a discharge will not keep them from continuing to occur.
under 20k in cc debt.
no car payment, we drive 12 year old vehicles

All that would really be discharged in my situation is going to be the cc debt. The household stuff is going to be tricky.

In our area we are 50k over the 75k median income for a household of 5. He said the local trustee will not let that go without challenging it. So I imagine I am going to have a fun set of meetings there and then the lawyer said without a doubt they will want the judge to rule on this. Other lawyers I saw said chapter 13 was the only way.

The lawyer has also known the judge for years, he feels like in this situation we have given him enough to give him the ability to say in this unique situation I would be willing to grant a 7. The lawyer says the trustee has been dying to get a ruling in our area against a certain dollar amount income to try and set some sort of guidelines for a 7 so the area lawyers have been very careful to try and not put any high income cases in front of the judge that they think would fail because of frivolous expenses and household way of life.

I have no cable, I have no internet, I spend about 120 dollars a month on food, I have eaten out once this year. I have used the cc's on 3 occasions this year.

I have a psychotic ex who stalks me 24/7 and who testified on court record to doing so. I get sued by the ex pretty consistently landing me in court several times a year, (he is wealthy). I had to go the stalking got so bad and leave my home and rent in another city far from him. I just couldn't handle it. The loss of privacy is overwhelming. I am current on my payments to my home. The lawyer believes it is very arguable that we shouldn't have to surrender my home because of the circumstances as I have enough equity to have an interest in keeping it but not enough for the courts to be able to gain by taking it. My husband cannot find employment locally so is gone most of the month out working. We incur extensive travel expenses to keep him gainfully employed. Almost like a third household. It is very clear from the years of going to court that my legal expenses post bankruptcy are going to be just as extensive as before for an unforseeable future. I have significant student loan debt which will be due a full 10 years after the bankruptcy. We will continue to incur travel debt to keep my husband employed who must pay child support. If he were take a lesser job locally the courts from his child support case have already indicated they would not give him a lessor amount of support because he chose to take a lessor job. We're in a mess.

So to the first set of questions, who here has been to court on their chapter 7? What might happen? What is coming next? How do the meetings work?

I'm pretty scared.

[wonkettegirl]

Evilxs, I filed for ch. 7 yesterday (Friday). My income is about 4k over the limit for a ch. 7 BUT the means test shows me below the "presumption of abuse" threshhold, so my atty advised ch. 7. I really, truly, hope the trustee doesn't object to that.

I like and trust my lawyer - that is SO important! Honestly, I would be a wreck without him because everytime I see him he is calm & reassuring. He got my paperwork together very quickly; he'll send me teh paperwork to review before teh 341 meeting so I can make sure it is absolutely accurate before I swear to it all under oath.

He said I can expect the 341 meeting on December 1, so I'm sure I'll be a wreck until then.


I'll be in this with you, so we can hold each other's hands, OK?

[TEW]

100k first mortg, 15k second
3 households to support
65k student loans
15k/yr legal fees
3 current lawsuits
One threatened lawsuit (letter from the lawyer)
None of the lawsuits bankruptcy related and a discharge will not keep them from continuing to occur.
under 20k in cc debt.
no car payment, we drive 12 year old vehicles

All that would really be discharged in my situation is going to be the cc debt. The household stuff is going to be tricky.

In our area we are 50k over the 75k median income for a household of 5. He said the local trustee will not let that go without challenging it. So I imagine I am going to have a fun set of meetings there and then the lawyer said without a doubt they will want the judge to rule on this. Other lawyers I saw said chapter 13 was the only way.

The lawyer has also known the judge for years, he feels like in this situation we have given him enough to give him the ability to say in this unique situation I would be willing to grant a 7. The lawyer says the trustee has been dying to get a ruling in our area against a certain dollar amount income to try and set some sort of guidelines for a 7 so the area lawyers have been very careful to try and not put any high income cases in front of the judge that they think would fail because of frivolous expenses and household way of life.

I have no cable, I have no internet, I spend about 120 dollars a month on food, I have eaten out once this year. I have used the cc's on 3 occasions this year.

I have a psychotic ex who stalks me 24/7 and who testified on court record to doing so. I get sued by the ex pretty consistently landing me in court several times a year, (he is wealthy). I had to go the stalking got so bad and leave my home and rent in another city far from him. I just couldn't handle it. The loss of privacy is overwhelming. I am current on my payments to my home. The lawyer believes it is very arguable that we shouldn't have to surrender my home because of the circumstances as I have enough equity to have an interest in keeping it but not enough for the courts to be able to gain by taking it. My husband cannot find employment locally so is gone most of the month out working. We incur extensive travel expenses to keep him gainfully employed. Almost like a third household. It is very clear from the years of going to court that my legal expenses post bankruptcy are going to be just as extensive as before for an unforseeable future. I have significant student loan debt which will be due a full 10 years after the bankruptcy. We will continue to incur travel debt to keep my husband employed who must pay child support. If he were take a lesser job locally the courts from his child support case have already indicated they would not give him a lessor amount of support because he chose to take a lessor job. We're in a mess.

So to the first set of questions, who here has been to court on their chapter 7? What might happen? What is coming next? How do the meetings work?

I'm pretty scared.

You DO NOT go to court on a chapter 7 unles there is a real problem with your case.
next question
try doing a search on 341 or meeting

[evilxs]

I trust my lawyer, he said to expect to have to go to court. Maybe I misunderstand but I will know more Monday.

wonkettegirl, deal! My nerves are so shot, but hopefully everything will be ok in the end right? Maybe I can get a 341 around the same time. I sure am hoping so.

[evilxs]

ok, meeting with lawyer went well. Asked for clarification. He expects the 341 to occur by late November. He expects the US Trustee to file a motion to dismiss by late January. (end of 90 day period). He then expects us to be in front of the judge by February.

Has no one else fought a motion to dismiss on their chapter 7? I am just trying to get an idea of what to expect from our side of things, not by what my lawyer has to say.

[TEW]

ok, meeting with lawyer went well. Asked for clarification. He expects the 341 to occur by late November. He expects the US Trustee to file a motion to dismiss by late January. (end of 90 day period). He then expects us to be in front of the judge by February.

Has no one else fought a motion to dismiss on their chapter 7? I am just trying to get an idea of what to expect from our side of things, not by what my lawyer has to say.

Why does your lawyer expect the case to get dismissed?

[paintinrosesred]

OP is over the median income by 50K.

Best of luck.. let us know how it goes.

[evilxs]

Income, he expects the main objection from the trustee to be that our income is so high and that if we were to surrender the house then we might have some to pay back. Our argument is that we have no intentions of surrendering the house that we have equity in it so should not have to surrender it. Our equity is so little it falls within our exemptions, but enough to reasonable argue that we should be allowed to include those house payments in our after filing budget. It will help in court that we are 100% on our house payments, none are behind. We are earnest in our intentions to keep this.

We also have a high level of non-dischargable debt (student loans), which while cannot be taken into account when figuring means, has historically in this district been given consideration because it does truely affect the amount of money or means left afterwards to pay back anything.

We also have extraordinary legal debts. The argument is that it can be expected that we will continue to have to spend at least 10k/yr for an unforseeable future fighting legal battles. In the last three years we have spent 54k. We have 4 current legal actions in the court system and an additional one threatened via attorneys. None of the lawsuits are debt related, but instead suits from ex-spouses, so nothing a bankruptcy can hold off. But legal expenses will continue to accrue. And probably at least for another 10 years continue to happen year by year. I had to submit legal bills from the past three years outlining all of the lawsuits and then documentation of the current suits and then the letter threatening the next suit.

[evilxs]

Has anyone else fought a motion to dismiss on a chapter 7 filing? 13?