How long did you get to stay in your house after incl. your house in a Ch. 7?

[debtmonster]

I want to include our house and both cars in the Ch. 7. I need to keep one or both cars as long as possible and I want to stay in the house as long as possible to give us time to save up to buy a used car for cash. Once the discharge is over, I want to stay in the house as long as possible before we get a knock on the door telling us to pack our stuff and get out. We will need to save up at least $4,000 cash to be able to pay first, last and security to rent a house in town.

For those of you who included your house in your Ch. 7 bankruptcy... I have a few questions...

After the discharge, how long did you get to stay in your house mortgage/rent-free before you were told to leave? If you've went bankrupt already and are still living there, how long have you been there so far?

If you did not pay your mortgage, did you continue to keep paying the property taxes and/or the home owner's insurance or did you stop paying it all?

If I were to let the mortgage & 2nd mortgage go, would paying the home owner's insurance keep me in the house longer before they finally foreclosed or would it not make any difference?

I live in Florida. I was told that by including a house in a Ch. 7 (vs. renting), that raises the exemptions of stuff you get to keep from $2,000 now up to $8,000. Is this true?

So if we file in April 2009, can we buy a car for cash right before then if we stop making the payments on our house and mortgage for several months prior? My mortgage, property taxes and insurance is over $1100. Both car payments are over $1100. If we stopped paying these, that would yield us $2200/mo., minus the payments to our bankruptcy attorney for the next few months.

I found a 2006 Saturn Ion on Auto Trader with only 15,000 miles for $6,000. That's almost like new!! These are the kind of deals I'd like to find. They are usually very hard to locate. You will have to sift through sometimes 50-80 ads on Auto Trader as many of the ones that look cheap have either put a false price or the car was wrecked with a rebuildable title.

I found a Porsche Cayenne on there for $4800. You know that's false. Somebody omitted a "1", "2" or "3" in front of that price just to get the car to show up at the top of the search results. Auto Trader needs to start removing these false ads.

[TEW]

I have not made a mortgage payment since June they bank only got the relief from stay last week. I am in PA it can take as long as 265 days to foreclose. They can not make you move until they have a foreclosure that means the deed is still in your name. My lawyer advised mo NOT to leave the house until it was out of my name. Since I would be liable is say the property came into some type of ordinance violation I could be fined and would have to pay. The earliest day I understand I can be evicted is Feb 27. 09 My mortgage company has asked me to stay until they ask me to leave. Foreclosed houses are being vandalized for the copper in the wiring and anything that can be sold.
Check to see what the foreclosure process is in your state.
As for the cars I am riding one car through as long as you make the payments chances are they wont bother you. At least they haven’t bothered me.
Hope this help

[justbroke]

I am a Chapter 13, but have become very versed in general Bankruptcy in Florida.

After the discharge, how long did you get to stay in your house mortgage/rent-free before you were told to leave? If you've went bankrupt already and are still living there, how long have you been there so far?

I know that you want general numbers, but it depends if you were already in foreclosure. If you were not in foreclosure, then the process needs to start to "kick you" out of the home. The Bank will file a motion for relief from the Automatic Stay to pursue an in rem action against the property. That just means that they'll file a lawsuit to foreclose on the property. This is called a lis pendens and is filed with the Clerk of the Court in your County. It will be served on you by a Sheriff Deputy and you'll have 20 days to respond. You can make this take longer by responding and doing some discovery. From my experience it took 4 months from the time I was served to the time a default judgment was entered and sale date set. I didn't respond to the notice. If you respond and do discovery, you can stretch this to 150 days. Normal foreclosure is about 3 months. Mine took longer because of the HOA and some other service issues on the summons!

If the prior foreclosure action was just stayed, it could possibly continue, with notice, almost immediately after an Order Granting motion for relief from stay.

If you did not pay your mortgage, did you continue to keep paying the property taxes and/or the home owner's insurance or did you stop paying it all?

I'm in a Chapter 13. I stopped paying everything BUT the insurance. You are still liable for the home... not the value. What I mean is, if there's a pool and some kid comes over and drowns, your bankruptcy won't protect you from that... especially post-petition.

If I were to let the mortgage & 2nd mortgage go, would paying the home owner's insurance keep me in the house longer before they finally foreclosed or would it not make any difference?

No difference. It's a "technical" procedure and they just need to follow the procedure. After the foreclosure and the sale, they may rent it back to you. You never know. They really don't want an empty property. They will place their own insurance on the property to protect their interest in the property.

I live in Florida. I was told that by including a house in a Ch. 7 (vs. renting), that raises the exemptions of stuff you get to keep from $2,000 now up to $8,000. Is this true?

You get two "general" exemptions. One is called the Wildcard Exemption which is $1,000 per person ($2,000 for a couple filing together). If you're giving up your home, you get to use the Homestead Exemption of $4,000 per person ($8,000 for a couple filing together). So, in Florida, your total wildcard is $5,000.00 as an individual. Be sure to quote the correct Statute or Constitutional Provision which gives you that deduction. The $4,000 is F.S. 222.25(4). The $1,000 comes from the Florida State Constitution Article X s.4.

(To more correctly answer your question... that's FALSE. It has to do with whether you claim a homestead exemption, not whether you own or rent. To use the $4,000 exemption, you can't claim a homestead. Florida Statute 222.25(4). You get the $1,000 wildcard exemption, per the Florida State Constitution, regardless of a homestead. The main issue with exemption is that you must declare them and list the State Statute or the Constitutional authority which grants the exemption. They are not "automatic".)

So if we file in April 2009, can we buy a car for cash right before then if we stop making the payments on our house and mortgage for several months prior? My mortgage, property taxes and insurance is over $1100. Both car payments are over $1100. If we stopped paying these, that would yield us $2200/mo., minus the payments to our bankruptcy attorney for the next few months.

NO, NO, NO, NO! Do not convert something that may be an exempt asset to non-exempt. Equity in cars is only non-exempt to $1,000 (Florida Statute 222.25(1) and only one car!!!). That's for ONE CAR ONLY. The best thing is to just redeem your current cars, if they're decent! Redemption would lower the value of those cars to their value (resale value) as of the petition date!

If you decide you don't want the cars or the home, stop paying them. It's wasted money. I do understand what you want to do with the money, but you'll need it for deposits! When you go to move to your rental, you'll need higher deposits for the lease as well as utilities.

I found a 2006 Saturn Ion on Auto Trader with only 15,000 miles for $6,000. That's almost like new!! These are the kind of deals I'd like to find. They are usually very hard to locate. You will have to sift through sometimes 50-80 ads on Auto Trader as many of the ones that look cheap have either put a false price or the car was wrecked with a rebuildable title.

See above. DO NOT CONVERT YOUR CASH into a non-exempt asset!

Well, that's all I have for now.

[debtmonster]

Wow... that is all great information! Thanks for answering.

We are $17,000 upside down on both cars. I want to give both of them back. It's cheaper to pay cash for a used one than to continue to pay $1050/mo. on both car payments for the next 48-60 months.

We did file for the homestead exemption on this house. So can we walk away with $8,000 in cash and/or stuff? We want to take our stainless steel appliances in the kitchen with us when we're gone. These were paid for on the 2nd mortgage. We also bought tile, a water filter system and I paid back IRS taxes from a previous year on this 2nd mortgage.

We will need a used car ASAP. We live 30-40 miles out in "no man's land" and cannot trust the reliability of some $500 beater car with 200,000 miles on it. If it breaks a timing belt or what have you, you could literally be walking 20+ miles and have absolutely no cell phone coverage to call in for help. OnStar doesn't even work out here.

At what point could I buy the $6,000 car for cash and not have it interfere with our case? I need to be able to do this while having my current cars in my possession so I have transportation to go around looking for cars. Most of these deals are up to 500 miles away to find low priced cars with very low miles.

[justbroke]

We are $17,000 upside down on both cars. I want to give both of them back. It's cheaper to pay cash for a used one than to continue to pay $1050/mo. on both car payments for the next 48-60 months.

I agree. Shouldn't reaffirm those cars at that rate!

We did file for the homestead exemption on this house. So can we walk away with $8,000 in cash and/or stuff? We want to take our stainless steel appliances in the kitchen with us when we're gone. These were paid for on the 2nd mortgage. We also bought tile, a water filter system....

That's alot... let's break it down.

First, are you talking about a Homestead Deduction for Florida? I'm referring to a Homestead Exemption which is different. It's part of the Bankruptcy Code for the State of Florida (and there are Federal Exemptions as well). You only assert or declare the Homestead Exemption when completing your Bankruptcy schedules (forms). This has nothing to do with the Florida Homestead Deduction.

Second, unattached appliances are fair game. You shouldn't remove "fixtures" which are permanently attached to the property, like doors, windows, fireplace, foundation...

Ripping out the tile, could be seen as abusive... but what can they do. The debt would be discharged. It's probably more unethical to tear the place apart, than illegal.

and I paid back IRS taxes from a previous year on this 2nd mortgage

Shhhhhhhhhhh! I didn't hear that. There are rules because you cannot discharge certain tax debts through Bankrutpcy. Some people paid property taxes and IRS taxes on credit cards, and then the credit card company files a motion to make the debt non-dischargeable because taxes are (routinely) non-dischargeable. (Taxes are dischargeable in certain cases, and when enough time has elapsed.) So, I didn't just see you just type that. Ok? (But be aware, that the HELOC people who did your 2nd, may be smart and realize that and file!)

We will need a used car ASAP. We live 30-40 miles out in "no man's land" and cannot trust the reliability of some $500 beater car with 200,000 miles on it. If it breaks a timing belt or what have you, you could literally be walking 20+ miles and have absolutely no cell phone coverage to call in for help. OnStar doesn't even work out here.

Absolutely! Whenever filing Bankruptcy, pre-bankruptcy planning suggests that you get a new or reliable car before filing!

At what point could I buy the $6,000 car for cash and not have it interfere with our case? I need to be able to do this while having my current cars in my possession so I have transportation to go around looking for cars. Most of these deals are up to 500 miles away to find low priced cars with very low miles.

Unless you're planning to file pro se (on your own), you should consult a good Bankruptcy lawyer. I only say this because pre-bankruptcy planning appears to be on the menu today (for you).

If you plan it correctly, you can insure that you keep your exempt assets as such and don't accidentally turn them into non-exempt assets. I might be inclined to get a clunker for now (under the $1,000 motor vehicle exemption for Florida). Return the cars. Wait for the 341, then go find a good car with the cash that you placed under your mattress... but forgot was there.

The key to a Chapter 7 is that it's a liquidation. Having an un-encumbered asset valued at $6K before or during the 341, will likely have the Trustee wanting that asset.

You can use your (you're married???) $10K combined wildcard and homestead exemption to protect some cash and your property that you'll keep (like clothing, jewelry, furniture, etc, etc, etc).

[debtmonster]

Yes, I am trying to do this as being married. We don't really have any jewelry. Just a bedroom set, living room furniture, a 50" HDTV, surround sound system, a Mac computer and the appliances which are not really permanently attached. I was not planning on leaving empty holes where they stand. I was going to buy the cheapest, used stuff (working or not) on Craigslist to fill the holes. All of the stuff we plan to take with us would only be worth maybe $3-4k if we tried to sell it on Craigslist and it would probably take 8-12 months to sell it since people are soooooooooooo cheap and don't want to give top dollar on used electronics that could be DOA when they plug it in.

It will royally suck to blow $1000 on a clunker only to throw it away. I'd rather put that $1000 towards the $6,000 car.

I'd rather stall the repo's and everything I can to save up for something like this:

Cheap Car with low miles (I'm sure this link will expire once the car is sold)

Cars like that are far, few and in-between. You won't find them sitting on dealer's lots for that price. You need "CASH" in hand to buy these from private owners. That $6,000 is basically what the dealer would offer this person as a trade-in, only to sell the car on the lot for $10-12k. I'd rather skip the middleman (the dealer) and buy right from the source (the person who traded the car in.)

This car will be long gone by the time I am ready, but that should give you an idea what I will need... whether it a Honda, Toyota, Nissan or what have you. I plan on moving to the Orlando area and be closer to jobs, so we will probably want an SUV, gas hog or not as we won't be putting on the crazy miles that we do now. If my wife could get a job 3 to 8 miles from home, she could afford to drive something that gets 18-22 MPG.

I know I could buy a used car like this with such low miles and keep it for at least 4 to 5 years and not have any major problems.