New here - need some advice badly

[Carmen830]

Hello everyone on this thread - first of all, let me just say that I have been reading posts on this site for about two weeks now, and I think this forum is so helpful and informative. Thank you for that. I will TRY to keep this as brief as possible - In 1999 I filed for Chapter 7 and was discharged. Throughout the years, I was able to re-establish my credit and was doing fairly well. Unfortunately (and I'm quite embarassed to say it), I got caught up in the credit cards again, and here I am again, in 2008, about to file again. I have incurred about $43K in c/c debt. Yes, I know - very steep, but honestly, I always had the intention of paying things back - I just finally realized I'd be paying these off for the rest of my life and barely making ends meet. I have fallen behind on my rent because I was making all of these c/c payments and loan payments. I have two daughters which I do receive support for (mutually agreed - no courts involved) on a monthly basis. My salary is about $53K (BEFORE taxes and deductions), so I pretty much make what I have incurred in debt (makes sense??) Here is a breakdown of what I owe, which by the way, i had been current in at least paying the minimums up until late Aug/early Sept:

BANK checking overdraft = $10K
BANK personal loan = $14,700 (a portion of this immediately went to pay my checking OD, leaving me with about $5K to catch up on my bills, etc)
C/C's = 15K (seperate ones; three of which are from the same bank that extended me credit on overdraft and the loan above. I always had direct deposit with them, so they knew exactly what i was making, but still loan me all of this money - in fact, everytime i called them to inquire about my accounts, they would ask me to apply for these loans, which is how i got in this mess to begin with.)

You all must be saying - this person is CRAZY - and again, I am so embarassed that I have allowed myself to get so deep in this - but I did and I can't try to make things what they aren't - I made my mistakes and this is what I am left with. I have no assets, for taxes, i claim my two daughters plus my two elderly parents who only live on SSI/Disability - not much, so I have to help them. I consulted with the same attorney I used in 1999 and he said I do qualify for Chap 7 again, and that it really should not be difficult for discharge, especially after he looked at amount of the debts and my income (incl. child support I receive) I asked him about the car that I am leasing which I want to keep and he said that will be fine - I will not have a problem keeping the car. Other than that, again, i do not have anything of value. The last balance transfer that I did on one of my bank credit cards was in April of 2008; with the largest charge in May of 2008 ($700). Can anyone tell me if I am ok to file in October, or should I wait until November? I have not received any collection notices, just ALOT of calls, which I have been ignoring. I am terrified of receiving a judgement letter from the bank that I owe the most money to. In honesty, prior to deciding to file chap 7, I tried working out a deal w/ the bank to see if i can get on a plan or get a lower APR for the large loan and overdraft account, but they would not budge. I am not one to just ignore my bills - my credit report always showed my payments were on time, etc. I am in NYC - btw. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. I am so stressed out, I can hardly sleep.

[GreenInkOnPaper]

I would save as much as you can, pay only what's absolutely necessary, and hold out as long as you possibly can. DH is on a 6 month plan.
Please don't take this as an admonishment: I, like you, have a compulsion to spend money I don't have, take every loan and credit card offered to me, and generally live above my means. Fortunately, my credit is not such that I get bombarded with offers! I had to give up a lot of control over financial matters, and let a CPA manage my money. I get an allowance, and all my bills get paid on time. I opted out of pre-screened credit offers, and froze my credit. I don't carry credit cards on my person. They are in my CPA's safe.( My CPA is my mother, so obviously I trust her.) I realized that at this time in my life, I am not competant at automotive repair, plumbing or prudent spending habits. What a releif it has been to allow a pro to handle this for me. Maybe something that would benefit you as well. Good luck!

[Carmen830]

Thank you very much -- I have been catching up on my rent, so hopefully by the ending of October, I should be caught up enough that I can pay my lawyer and start the filing. Trust me, I have truly learned my lesson and since opening up a new bank account at a different bank (at the suggestion of my attorney), I have only been using my debit card and on a much stricter budget. I can just kick myself for allowing myself to incur $10K in overdraft - When the bank offered me the personal loan, I thought it would help me, but it just dug me deeper in a hole. I should have used more common sense but I feel as though the bank set me up too b/c why on earth would they approve me for a loan of $14K, knowing that I had that overdraft amount already incurred?...I will not allow myself to get into this mess again - I am older and wiser now to know better.

[jessegirl]

Hey Carmen I think you will be fine to file now.

[Carmen830]

I am concerned about the 90-day rule though -- on one of my credit cards, the last charge was for $70 which was a charge for my daughter's uniform for school, and the last time I had to use my overdraft was in September as well, but it was for $20 to cover my transportation on the train for the week. I didn't have funds in my new account yet - thus the reason for using the OD account. I wonder if that will cause the credit card company to question me if I file in October. Also, am I better off just waiting to file for as long as possible, or should I just file in November, which is what I was planning on doing just to start the ball rolling on this??

[jessegirl]

I didn't know you used your card in Sept. Its only a small amount. I really do not think it will be a problem. I guess if you can wait then wait. But for 20-70 bucks. I reall do no think that a company is going to object for such little money.

[Flamingo]

Carmen - from your posting I am assuming it has been a while since you last talked to the attorney who handled your first BK. Call and make an appointment with him and lay this all out on the table. Right now you are in a downward spiral that will eventually hit rock bottom with a big thud if you don't get a grip on it now. After you get yourself out of this mess, you truly need to take a hard look at your situation because you continue to make the same mistakes over and over again with credit and use charge cards for things you cannot really afford. As to your parents, there are services out there that can assist you with their care - contact your local senior center for more information. My sister and I have been through all that and there is help and assistance in many things only if you look for it. May I suggest contacting Debtor's Anonymous after your filing and discharge, have the credit reporting agencies put a block on your accounts for future credit offers (after this and with this economy, you can bet not much, if anything, will come for quite a while) and take this entire scenario as an indication of what is going on in your life and will continue on as such (another filing in 10 years) if you don't do something about it now.

[Carmen830]

Flamingo - thanks for your reply - yes, i have consulted with my attorney that handled my case 9 years ago - he told me that yes, it appears I do qualify for chap 7 again. Now, it's just a matter of paying him the fee. Once i do that, the papers will all be submitted. I guess I'm just nervous and at the same time, i do feel guilty that throughout the 9 years, i have accumulated all of this debt (with the intention to pay it) and now I am at a point, where I realize that there's no way I can afford to do this anymore. Now that I have two small kids at home, there is no way that I am going to allow myself to get into this again - after all of this is done with, my only concern is making sure that my two girls are set for the future - and that will mean me being more responsible with my money.

[epiphany]

I think you are good to go.

I don't think your piddly charges will cause a second glance by any. Those were small non-luxury purchases. I wouldn't sweat it.

I like you, had to go through this twice before I learned my lesson. The first time was not a bankruptcy but it might as well have been. A family member got me into credit counseling and eventually just bailed me out. YES I HAD A BAILOUT EVERBODY--DON'T GET UPSET WITH ME. It wasn't at my request, but I let him.

Fast Forward 10 years and I'm back in the hole and then some. I learned my lesson this time...have not used credit for almost one year (hey, I just realized that, good for me) and should be discharged shortly.

When you say that you have been through this before and are completely embarrassed, I get that. I also get that the second time can be a charm and I believe you when you say you have learned your lesson.

Best of luck to you and please keep us posted.

ep

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Carmen830, ditto what everyone else said.

I would add that, worst case scenario and the creditor challenges you over your April cash advance or any transactions made since then (HIGHLY unlikely, but we're talking worst case) the only part of your debt that would be rendered non-dischargeable would be THAT particular cash advance, or THAT overdraft, or THAT school uniform charge. It would not affect the entirety of your debt.

You didn't say how large your cash advance was, so I don't know what portion of your total debt it represents, but if you wait six months -- longer if possible -- you actually risk very little, as you have been making regular payments on it and are not in default, which means it would probably be hard for them to say that you incurred the debt with no intention of repaying it. There are other factors as well (see this excellent thread: http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=23556) but if you wait the six months you're probably in better shape than you think to file.

I don't think anyone here judges you; most of us are here because we have filed or are considering filing bk. We're in your shoes. I wish you well!!!

[Carmen830]

The largest balance transfer that I did was in the amount of $500 (2x) to seperate credit cards to bring down their balance and use the 0% interest offer. These were last done in April & May. The largest amount that I have ever charged was in May and that was for $700. Other than these large amounts, I do not have excessive charges that equal to $500 or more. Yes, I used the cards to buy things in the supermarket, etc; but nothing above the $500 transferred in April & May, nor anything above the $700 charge in May. Up until late August/early September, I had been making my payments (minimum payments due) because I just couldn't afford to pay them more. So I am leaning towards filing in November/December ONLY IF I can avoid any judgements in the meantime. I can handle the phone calls by ignoring them; but should I receive a judgement letter in the mail; that is the only thing that may push me to file sooner rather than later. I'm just wondering if I file before November, would there be a chance of things going smoothly vs. getting objections, etc. (My main concern is the bank that gave me the outrageous overdraft protection along with the personal loan PLUS they also gave me three credit cards ($2,000 limit on each). I'm wondering if they would show up at the 341 or oppose anything. Hope this all makes sense.

[Carmen830]

BTW, when I met with my attorney, he suggested that I stop all payments to the accounts, which is what I have started to do. It makes me feel terrible; but I just can't do it anymore. I tried working something out with the bank that I had the most debt with; but they would not work anything out - AND - at the time, I was up to date with my payments, so I did try on numerous times to work out an arrangement. I don't live lavishly; I just let myself get carried away, thinking I can handle all of this and it all bit me in the @#$. Hopefully soon, this can all be resolved. I'm sitting here typing and in less than 5 minutes, I have received 3 phone calls from 3 different creditors. It is insane how much they call - almost to the point of harassment. My 6-year old daughter answered the phone today and the person on the other line asked her if mommy was home, she said no, and the person asked if mommy was married...I could not believe this was asked to a child. I'm furious that someone would put my daughter in a position like that. I don't even know if that is legal - isn't that like interrogating a child?

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Yes, it makes sense.

Two things you should know: if you don't wait at least 90 days from the cash advances it's an automatic win for the creditor should the creditor challenge them, but you're past that point. The more time the better, but you're at least outside the 90 day window. Also, very, very few creditors show up at 341s (outside of family creditors, which tend to be horror stories, and sometimes local mom-and-pop creditors).

Also, check the mailings you get VERY carefully. Many official looking letters are actually *threats* to sue, and not actual notification of a suit. They're very canny that way. But your best bet is to keep an eye on the website of your local courthouse and make sure your name doesn't show up, checking every couple of weeks. If they're going to sue you, they have to do it at your local courthouse, so that's the only place you need to keep an eye on. If your name isn't there, you haven't been sued, regardless of what legal-looking mailings you receive.

Good luck!!!

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Carmen, there's a section on this board for collections issues (http://www.bkforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4) and if you read it I think you'll get a lot of great tips. But in the meantime, turn the answering machine on, the ringer off, and screen your calls. I think it's obscene that they would question your daughter, but no, I'm not surprised. They do some obscene things. Good luck!!!

[GreenInkOnPaper]

Don't take collectors too seriously. You have to take care of your family first ~ !!!