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    Chapter 7 Home Sale

    I filed for Chapter 7 and had it discharged in April of 2005. I was lucky as I was able to get a bankruptcy prior to the new law coming into effect. My question deals specifically with my financial obligations around the 2 mortgages I had to purchase my home. I had a 1st mortgage that paid for 80% of my house and a second that paid for 20%, so I essentially purchased with no money down in 2003. I then listed both mortgages on my BK filing in 2004, and they were included in the discharge that occurred in April of 2005. I then had a lawyer, validate that neither mortgage has been reaffirmed since my bankruptcy discharge.

    Now, I am trying to sell that home. With the horrible housing market I'm looking at selling the home for a loss. Where my question comes in is, I think selling the home at a loss is the same as a short sale, right? I have spoken with both mortgage companies, and the 80% company says they will be made whole based on the sale price. They also say they are ultimately the ones that decide if a short sale is going to be accepted or not. The communication they sent to me said, sell and we'll support the short sale 100%, the 20% firm will get whatever is left over or $1000, according to the 80% mortgage company the 20% mortgage firm essentially had an unsecured loan and their losses will be covered by PMI. Their advice is to sell the home and not worry about the 20% mortgage company.

    The 20% mortgage company has told me they have to approve of a short sale prior to it's execution to ensure they are made whole or agree with the sale price. They also say if they refuse the short sale I can't sell the home. Their essentially trying to put themselves in the other firms shoes.

    What do I do? both mortgages were discharged in BK, both show as 0$ outstanding balance on my CR and pay on time never late, and I continue to pay the mortgages on time and both are current. What is the imapct if I sell and don't include the 20% mortgage company in the short sale discussions? Should I even care, technically I don't owe them a dime...I think.

    Thanks, sorry for the long winded question.

    #2
    Originally posted by bnkruptn2004 View Post
    What do I do? both mortgages were discharged in BK, both show as 0$ outstanding balance on my CR and pay on time never late, and I continue to pay the mortgages on time and both are current. What is the imapct if I sell and don't include the 20% mortgage company in the short sale discussions? Should I even care, technically I don't owe them a dime...I think.
    it's not that the mortgage has been discharged, it's that the Banks, both of them, have valid liens against the home.

    What will happen if you attempt to sell, based on your conversations with 20% Bank, is that the Title Company, when doing the Title Insurance (guaranteeing no liens or that the property will be free and clear), will find that other Bank!!!

    You need to negotiate with the second lender better! You may have to offer than $1-$2K to shut them up??? You have to let them know that the debt is already discharged, that the house is only worth $XXX and that they would get nothing from a sale anyhow. Also, that you're not on the hook as the debt was discharged in a prior Bankruptcy. You have to make them realize that this is a no-win situation for them (or a win-win if you offer to throw them a couple of grand).

    Are you working with a Real Estate agent? Hopefully your RE agent is very good short sales and has a staff attorney or is an attorney themselves (skilled in RE law), who can make Bank #2 (20%) know that this is the best they'll do!
    Last edited by justbroke; 09-24-2008, 03:00 PM.
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

    Any advice provided is not legal advice, but simply the musings of a fellow bankrupt.

    Comment


      #3
      OK, not a liar, err, lawyer, but I think you are in the drivers seat. Tell them to work with you, or walk away completely from it. You are not expecting a profit are you? What do you have to lose? You are already discharged unless you signed a reaffirmation, and you have not indicated that. ‘Hub
      If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

      Comment


        #4
        Why would you choose to short sale the house if it is discharged? I am NOT a lawyer, but I am thinking you would be better off walking, because there could be a liability issue for you on a "sale" --- if the buyer were to find some undisclosed defect or problem with the house. You obviously are not making a profit or it wouldn't be a short sale. Right? Am I missing something here?
        Filed Ch 7 -- July 9, 2008
        341 mtg ---- August 14, 2008
        Discharged ---- October 17, 2008
        Closed --------- December 11, 2009!

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by PoorGrammyinBK7 View Post
          Why would you choose to short sale the house if it is discharged? I am NOT a lawyer, but I am thinking you would be better off walking, because there could be a liability issue for you on a "sale" --- if the buyer were to find some undisclosed defect or problem with the house. You obviously are not making a profit or it wouldn't be a short sale. Right? Am I missing something here?
          Gram, I agree with you and do not understand the reasoning of our OP. It may be that he needs to read more about all this on our forum or get the Chapter 7 book off of Nolo.com.
          If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

          Comment


            #6
            Now that I read the additional posts, has me wondering. I didn't consider a second position in that they may be behind in payments and have damaged their credit even further (post Bankruptcy).

            I approached it as, maybe they're preventing a "foreclosure" on their credit. Having wrote that, the BK filing was from 2005 (maybe even 2004 as it was discharged early 2005), so that will roll off... but it would be there as long as the "foreclosure". however, credit reports are about time. While a ding on your credit is bad, how recently it occurred, counts more against you.

            Just wondering.
            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

            Any advice provided is not legal advice, but simply the musings of a fellow bankrupt.

            Comment


              #7
              all thanks for the posts, as this has helped quite a bit. As for the house sale, the only money I'm losing is the equity I already have, but since I bought with no money down the loss is limited to the 3K in equity built up over five years. I'm fine with that. I'm choosing a short sale because to walk away from the home and quit making payments means a foreclosure....which is something I don't want on my credit report. It took too long to recover from the Ch7, I don't want another ding. All payments to the mortgage companies are current.

              As for the sale price, the 20% lender is looking at getting at least 10K back from sale of the home, so they're going to get something, but at 10K they're still losing 18K. I'm not interested in a profit, as much as I'm interested in getting rid of the house.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by bnkruptn2004 View Post
                ... I'm choosing a short sale because to walk away from the home and quit making payments means a foreclosure....which is something I don't want on my credit report. It took too long to recover from the Ch7, I don't want another ding. All payments to the mortgage companies are current...
                Ahh.... that's what I thought.
                Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                Any advice provided is not legal advice, but simply the musings of a fellow bankrupt.

                Comment

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