Happy Ira's 341: The good, the bad and the very ugly.

[happy_ira]

Hi all. Back from my 341. Mixed results. I'll try to keep as brief as possible.

I sat in the appointed room, waited for my name to be called, my attorney was there. BK Trustee called me, I went up and sat down. BK Trustee asked me the routine questions (name, address, blah blah blah). Next he inquired about some additional documentation he had requested to ensure there was no equity value in my home (mortgage loans exceed the appraisal value). Asked a couple more straightforward questions that I answered. He was satisfied with the answers.

He was just about done and was about to say "..case closed" (or something like that), when a guy off to the side, the US Trustee, who had been very quiet until now, piped up. He questioned a few line items on the Schedule J; I had solid reasons for each question. He understood my answers but wants to see some more paperwork. So, he listed the things he wants (tax returns, 6 months paystubs, receipts for childcare and my prior divorce settlement) and I told him I would get him copies shortly.

(Interestingly enough, he wanted to know why my 401k Loan was not listed as a monthly deduction; he said it was wrong not to include and I must show on Schedule I as a deduction from income (of course, this makes my monthly gross income lower), so that form needs to be amended.)

Anyway, the meeting was "adjourned" to end of next month in order for the US Trustee to receive the documentation and review; he also filed a "stipulation" that moves out the discharge date from 60 days to 120 days in case of objections.

All in all, the BK Trustee was very easy compared to the US Trustee who was a bear!

Anyone have any thoughts/experience in dealing with US Trustee in these kinds of follow-ups from a 341?

[BROKENN]

Hi, good job for getting through it.
It doesn't sound too bad. In one way he helped (401K) and another he may just want that paperwork to make sure the ducks are in a row. Probably was listening to your answers and thought it was OK because he didn't take out his claws?

I'm sure others will chime in. Just thought I would cheer you on!

[happy_ira]

It doesn't sound too bad. In one way he helped (401K) and another he may just want that paperwork to make sure the ducks are in a row.

The worst part of all this is merely knowing the ordeal is "on hold" in a way and needs to be continued. My attorney said that if (big "if") the US Trustee is satisfied with the documentation I submit, then there is a chance that the adjourment meeting gets cancelled and I dont have to show up again. However that is unlikely. Meanwhile, it's taking away time from my life for no reason. Oh well.

I believe the BK Trustee at this point wants "out" because he sees there are no assets for him to make any money and it's just sucking up his time. He really didn't care about the US Trustee's issues, to be frank.

Probably was listening to your answers and thought it was OK because he didn't take out his claws?

The US Trustee himself was actually a "nice" guy and he struck me as extremely intelligent. He was not cranky like the BK Trustee; this US Trustee was someone I would want as my attorney. And I understand precisely why he asked his questions and, I suppose, I can understand his request for documentation, which I will provide as it is 100% true. At the same time, it is all just frustrating I just don't want this to drag on indefinitely for no reason as it is my life...

[BROKENN]

Hang in there! It won't be indefinite and it is a complete bummer. I am sorry.

It will go well though! It should, like you said, you could understand those questions. The trustee not seeing any assets is good too. Rather he be cranky as it means no money to be made.

Do go on with your life, it is important. But I also understand that is easier said than done!

[WoodSprite]

Hi, Ira - I've been wondering about you all morning. Well, I have to agree with with brokenn. It's certainly not the best possible outcome, but it doesn't actually sound as if anyone's suspicious, either. I'm really sorry that you drew the short straw of a UST audit, even with a decent UST.

Someone with first-hand experience will weigh in shortly, but honestly, it just sounds like an annoyance rather than a threat. You're already prepared to meet his request. You answered the UST's questions honestly and clearly, and now he's just going to satisfy himself that he's not missing anything, which is after all his job. It doesn't sound confrontational.

Oh, but $#%!...not what you wanted, especially the 120-day thing, which must be absolutely maddening. I'm so sorry.

Still, congratulations anyway for getting through it with grace and presence of mind. It's a huge accomplishment.

[happy_ira]

I'm really sorry that you drew the short straw of a UST audit, even with a decent UST.

Yes... everyone's got a job to do and has bills to be paid. I do understand the US Trustee's perspective but I also think he's wasting his time here; I just want the adjourment date to hurry up and get here. I was able to get almost all the documentation eh requested within 2 hours of getting back home. Perhaps if I mail it to him ASAP, he'll see there truly is nothing to hide?

Oh, but $#%!...not what you wanted, especially the 120-day thing, which must be absolutely maddening. I'm so sorry. Still, congratulations anyway for getting through it with grace and presence of mind. It's a huge accomplishment.

Thank you. I think the BK Trustee was happy to get someone who answered questions directly, spoke clearly, did not have a cell phone turned on (one of the debtors before me actually had his phone RING in his pocket while speaking to the Trustee; the Trustee threw him out and said come back in 30 minutes when the thing is off--yikes), etc.

I'm just unhappy about prolonging this thing. Oh well. I'll feel a little better once I mail the US Trustee the documentation. Then the waiting game commences again... and reasons to be nervous for nought, I hope.

[WoodSprite]

Yes... everyone's got a job to do and has bills to be paid. I do understand the US Trustee's perspective but I also think he's wasting his time here; I just want the adjourment date to hurry up and get here. I was able to get almost all the documentation eh requested within 2 hours of getting back home. Perhaps if I mail it to him ASAP, he'll see there truly is nothing to hide?

That sounds like a good plan.

I have to say, you're being a real grown-up about this, Ira. I'd be writhing on the floor, wailing "It's not fair, it's not fair, it's not fair... WAAAAAAHHHHHH...."

Thank you. I think the BK Trustee was happy to get someone who answered questions directly, spoke clearly, did not have a cell phone turned on (one of the debtors before me actually had his phone RING in his pocket while speaking to the Trustee; the Trustee threw him out and said come back in 30 minutes when the thing is off--yikes), etc.

WOW. I don't know whether I'm more surprised that the security guards let the guy in the building with a cell, or that he actually had it turned on. I'll bet he was the very last case of the day, after a slip like that. Wow.

Then the waiting game commences again... and reasons to be nervous for nought, I hope.

Actually, this should be LESS nervous-making (if more aggravating), since you can tell from the tone of today's proceedings that they're both satisfied with your filing, and that this is just a bureaucratic purgatory. You done good.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Our UST is in Orlando but our Court is in Jax. They pull a few hundred individuals for a check over since the new 2005 laws. You just may be that "lucky" one. We waited for six months to get our discharge, and was extended 90 days for anyone to complain. It only sounds clerical to me. I think he wanted every dot and tittle fixed in your case but I'm sure he hasn't seen any abnormalities that would dismiss you. You will prevail. 'Hub

[jessegirl]

Hey Ira, Sorry that this thing is going to be prolonged for you. Thats a bummer. But, I am also proud that you held up and answered everything... Good for you. I hope the 120 goes fast...

[BROKENN]

I'd be writhing on the floor, wailing "It's not fair, it's not fair, it's not fair... WAAAAAAHHHHHH...."

HAHA... you kill me!!! That would be most of us!

and that this is just a bureaucratic purgatory.

The best description I have seen yet!

So is this the audit aspect I have heard about here and there?
HI, You are a good man, we will be by you!

[AngelinaCatHub]

I'm surprised the debtor had a cell phone with him. Our courthouse won't let you in with one. If you bring one in, Security locks it up in a locker until you leave. We left ours in the car.

But you did very well, all in all. I'm going to say Congratulations! anyway.

(Actually, this is MRS. ACH. I didn't realize 'Hub was still logged in here.)

[JRScott]

HI Ira, glad that you got through this initial one. Sorry about the continuance. Don't give up

Hopefully the paperwork will satisfy them and move things down.

Also discharge is typically 60 days from the initial 341 even if later continued. It is not unusual for the UST though to ask for a 30 day extension, never heard of a 60 day one but hopefully he'll change it once he gets documents.

[happy_ira]

Actually, this should be LESS nervous-making (if more aggravating), since you can tell from the tone of today's proceedings that they're both satisfied with your filing, and that this is just a bureaucratic purgatory. You done good.

The BK Trustee was definitely satisfied. The additional paperwork he had requested prior to my 341 was cleanly laid out (sent in advance to his office) and he looked at it again with me right there. He didn't smell anything particularly funny in my case.

The US Trustee on the other hand... I really don't know what his deal is; I guess he is doing his job.

Note that the US Trustee had a woman sitting next to him. She was silent throughout the entire time; never said a peep but was very sympathetic looking when I started talking about the disabled baby. She appeared to be a in-training at the UST. I looked up my US Trustee on the US website. He is listed as a "Bankruptcy Analyst". He definitely did NOT appear sympathetic when I started mentioning the 30 pounds of equipment the baby needs. He'd make a wicked good poker player.

In any event, I hope to get the US Trustee the documents he asked for asap.

With respect to the Amended Sched I (and associated Sched J since it affects the bottom line monthly "net") he asked for... is that something my lawyer submits? I dont want to pay another fee.

[jessegirl]

How do you know if you have a us trustee assigned to your case? Is it thru pacer? ANd where on pacer would that information be?

[JRScott]

You would need to talk to your lawyer about it. Most likely he will charge you for it , unless it was his mistake. (Its 29 dollars plus whatever he charges).