Problem with BNC Certificate of Mailing -- anyone ever seen this?

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Hi y'all!

I have been helping a friend of mine navigate his no-asset Ch7, and a couple of weeks ago he finally filed (yaaaay!!!) and the creditors stopped calling, so he knows that they were notified. A couple days ago, he called me and said he'd received a couple of filings (request for notice, notice of appearance) and after explaining to him what they were, I told him I'd check his case on PACER and see if there was anything more to it.

Tonight, I logged into PACER and in addition to looking at the notices filed, I also opened the BNC Certificate of Mailing.

There were ZERO creditors listed. None notified by mail ("TOTAL: 0"), none notified electronically (again, a big fat "TOTAL: 0"). It shows that he was mailed a notification at his home address, but it doesn't even show that he received notice at his P.O. Box.

Now, I helped him assemble his creditor matrix, and I know it was filed correctly. It does show up in PACER as a part of his voluntary petition, just as it should. But not a single creditor is listed on the BNC Certificate of Mailing, only one notification to his own home address.

I called him and let him know that this could be a potential problem (future junk debt buyers, violations of the automatic stay, etc.) and he is going to call the case manager tomorrow to follow up, but has anyone seen anything like this before? I just about soiled myself when I saw it.

Thanks for your help!!!

Daisy

[danaf]

Daisy - it's probably that the courts are overloaded with bks and the paperwork hasn't been entered yet. That would be my guess. My 341 date was in there but the fact that I did it wasn't. And the trustee never put any entries in there either. It just went from filing to discharge.

I know I'm not telling you anything you don't already know but your friend can call the court directly to find out about this.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Thanks, Danaf! The problem with the BNC Certificate of Mailing is that, as I explained to my friend, it is a static document. It doesn't get updated. There's no further paperwork involved. It's just the legal proof that your creditors were notified, by what means, and exactly when. So there's no chance that he will look it up tomorrow in PACER and suddenly see all his creditors listed... that's why I'm concerned about it. He has no legal proof that his creditors were notified. Sure, he has his creditor matrix, but...

Ah well. He will be calling the case manager tomorrow anyway, but it blew my mind to see it so I thought I'd ask. I hope you are doing well these days -- congratulations on your discharge!!! I knew you could do it!!!

[epiphany]

Hi sweet Flad, so good to hear from you.

I just looked in Pacer, and while I see the BNC certificate of mailing (two in fact), they are not something that I can click on and look at like my creditor matrix, so am not sure what you are looking at?

If you can navigate me there, I would be happy to look at mine for you.

ep

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Hi Ep!!!

If you go to the Docket Report of your case, the BNC Certificate of Mailing should show up as a separate filing, and you should be able to click on the number to the left of it and view the PDF. When you open it, the first two pages will be an exact copy of the bankruptcy notice mailed out to you and your creditors, and everything after that is a listing of which creditors got notified by mail, at what address and when, and which were notified electronically, and when.

It's interesting that you have two; definitely open both and look through them.

If you have filed a creditor matrix (and of course you have ) every single one of the creditors on your matrix SHOULD be reflected on that BNC Certificate of Mailing. My own was perhaps a page, page and a half of creditors notified. Yours may be shorter or longer, depending on how many creditors you have. But it should by no means say ZERO creditors notified!!! which is the exact situation my friend is in with his.

Definitely check yours out... when you open it up, you'll see what value it has for you in definitively proving what creditors were notified of your bk. Thanks for your thoughts -- I hope all things are going well for you!!!

[epiphany]

Oh, thank you. I just came back to tell you I figured it out and that I do have plenty listed. But now I have a question...I saw the California tax board listed there (I don't owe anything, I don't think), but I didn't see the IRS.....I forgot to check the second one though and will have to go back.

This could explain why I haven't heard from the IRS since my audit. I was audited on 6/18 for two years and we only got through one but I only owed em like 30 bucks and the second year I had to bring them the docs reorganized (which I did) cause we didn't get to it. That year probably would have shown nothing if it was to go like the first year.

Crap, now I am worried. I told my lawyer that the outcome of that audit was pending and I didn't want them included in the BK.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread. I'll post a new one when I figure out exacty what my question is. I gotta go back and look at that second BNC.

ep

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread.

But Ep, I don't FEEL hijacked!!!

[epiphany]

But Ep, I don't FEEL hijacked!!!

Well that's good. I feel better.

Now, I just went back and do not see that the IRS was notified. But why was the California tax franchise board notified? Is that normal?????

ep

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Ep, if the California tax franchise board was not included in your creditor matrix, then yes, it is (at least to me ) unusual that they'd be notified. Unless they are automatically notified of every bk in your state, it would take manual intervention for them to be added to the list. You could, if you felt like it, call the case manager and ask how they got added. But first check your creditor matrix and schedules for the more obvious explanation...

Good luck!!!

[epiphany]

Okay, I will do that but am almost positive they are not on my matrix..I have checked this before and did not notice them and I certainly didn't include them. I will check the schedules tomorrow, which I haven't done. Very curious now.

Thanks Flad!

ep