Keeping a computer in Ch. 7? Friend of mine's vehicle repo'd by unsecured creditor!

[debtmonster]

DebtMonster - do you have any family close by that can help you and advise you? Or call them if they live further away? Any close friends you can confide in? If you are feeling that badly about this situation, there is help out there. There is no problem that cannot be fixed/resolved. Including yours.

My parents are divorced. I spoke with both of them. My mother has not had a job for over a year. My father told me that he's made about $7,000 this year. I've talked to everyone about it and they all say the same thing... "Give it all back and go bankrupt."

I am all for it, but I cannot file if my wife won't meet the attorney and sign the papers. I showed you my incomes. I make over the median income. For Florida, a married couple cannot earn over $50,000/yr. to pass the means test. That's $4166/mo.

Since January until now, we had many months where we were way over that amount. What do we do? Then my December bonus will mess it all up. I don't know what else to do. I am dieing to go bankrupt. If my wife won't come to her senses, I may have to end up divorcing her and go bankrupt on my own. Then I'll be homeless and without a vehicle. I am thinking about suicide or leaving the country.

[Flamingo]

Yes, I have showed her. She thinks that going back to work for $200/wk. will fix this. I told her she would need to make $3,000 to $4,000/mo. to fix this. $200/wk. will not put a dent in the money we need. It's just making it worse because she's putting all of those miles on the car to get to work since we live so remote out in the middle of nowhere. For me to get a good paying job, I have to drive 90-120 miles away. We can't sell our house because it's upside down. And even if we did sell it, we can't buy another one since the banks are more strict about giving out loans. And now that our credit score is like mid 500's and my wife's is about 511, nobody will sell us a house. Plus the fact that I have apt evictions on my credit report from the past, no apt will let me rent. I already talked to a couple about it. Not to mention that renting is a scam. When you rent, you're simply paying somebody else's mortgage and not getting the tax benefits. I get a near $10,000/yr. write off that I could not get with renting an apt. And an apt similar to what I am living in now would cost more than we're paying. I've talked to lots of friends who have seen my house and when I tell them what I pay for the mortgage and utilities all of them have said unanimously, "You will never get a place that cheap down here. You're better off staying there."

It's getting to the point where suicide will be the only way out for me.

DebtMonster - do you have any family close by that can help you and advise you? Or call them if they live further away? Any close friends you can confide in? If you are feeling that badly about this situation, there is help out there. There is no problem that cannot be fixed/resolved. Including yours.

[debtmonster]

I'm sorry, I meant Best Buy not Sony...

You had the same situation with your wife last spring in your previous postings and several of us here who are still posting remember your situation. Unfortunately, your wife is still in a bad case of denial as she probably doesn't want her friends or family to know you are having financial difficulties and is trying to maintain the status quo. Reality will soon hit and it's a shame you cannot make her see what is happening. Have you actually sat down with her and did a spreadsheet of your finances and show her how it will all end if something isn't done? Especially if you now only have one income?

Yes, I have showed her. She thinks that going back to work for $200/wk. will fix this. I told her she would need to make $3,000 to $4,000/mo. to fix this. $200/wk. will not put a dent in the money we need. It's just making it worse because she's putting all of those miles on the car to get to work since we live so remote out in the middle of nowhere. For me to get a good paying job, I have to drive 90-120 miles away. We can't sell our house because it's upside down. And even if we did sell it, we can't buy another one since the banks are more strict about giving out loans. And now that our credit score is like mid 500's and my wife's is about 511, nobody will sell us a house. Plus the fact that I have apt evictions on my credit report from the past, no apt will let me rent. I already talked to a couple about it. Not to mention that renting is a scam. When you rent, you're simply paying somebody else's mortgage and not getting the tax benefits. I get a near $10,000/yr. write off that I could not get with renting an apt. And an apt similar to what I am living in now would cost more than we're paying. I've talked to lots of friends who have seen my house and when I tell them what I pay for the mortgage and utilities all of them have said unanimously, "You will never get a place that cheap down here. You're better off staying there."

It's getting to the point where suicide will be the only way out for me.

[Flamingo]

You are absolutely right. She is in total denial. I just got off the phone with her 3 minutes ago and told her I want to give back the BMW. She said, "No, I am not giving back my SUV." It's in her name and that's what is messing everything up. I told her that after we pay the mortgage and I take 20% out for self-employment taxes, we're going to have nothing left this month. This month's commission check is going to be very small as the business for August was horrible. If I make $2800-3000, I will be amazed. In the past, we used to make up to $7,000 to $8,000 gross per month. I told her that she is destroying our marriage with this. It will be easier if I just get divorced and go bankrupt on the house and everything if she refuses to give in. She keeps acting like it's the end of the world. It's just STUFF!! YOU CAN BUY IT AGAIN! I see it, but she doesn't! She is driving me insane. We fight about money EVER SINGLE F-ING DAY and it's pissing me off until there's no tomorrow.

As some of us stated to you last Spring, as you had the same situation basically, unless you can get your wife to come to grips with your household financial situation and wake up and smell the coffee, I don't think you are going to be able to resolve the whole thing jointly. Your problems are much more than financial from what you have posted now and in the past. You have become an enabler for your wife and you yourself don't know what to do because you are afraid whatever you do is going to make her more mad. So you keep enabling and allowing her/enabling her to obtain what she wants. Hopefully some of us responding to you will make you see this. May I suggest also seeing a marriage counselor if that is posssible and also consulting with a few BK lawyers to get a handle on your entire situation. It sounds like you may be going through a divorce at the same time as your BK so your situation can get very complicated and I would suggest getting legal advice as soon as possible. It's obvious you cannot handle this on your own at this point.

[debtmonster]

Do you have to file CH 7? You could maybe do a Ch 13 with a small payback and not have to wait forever to file? Just a thought.

Good luck trying to get a trustee to let you keep a beamer while not paying a dime back to your creditors. I have a feeling you are setting yourself up for real problems there, no matter what your rationalizations are.

Ch. 13 is a total waste. That's like not doing bankruptcy at all. I have no real assets that I am worried about. I like the BMW, but I won't lose sleep over giving it back.

As I said, my wife's mother just died in August. She has a 2006 Honda Oddysey van that my wife's father is paying $500/mo. on. It has 20,000 miles on it. He wants to sell it now as he can't afford it anymore. On the phone 15 minutes ago, I told her, "Why don't we go bankrupt on the two vehicles we have now that we're paying $1050/mo. on. Your dad needs to sell the van. We need something to be able to carry the dogs and travel. We can pay the $500/mo. on the van and drive it and then your dad is off the hook." Her first statement was, "No, I'm not giving back the BMW."

I wish you all could hear her on the phone. She's down with her father right now in Miami and is coming home tomorrow. We're going to fight about this situation every single day. She is so immature about this whole situation. Bankruptcy is no big deal and she's making it like it will be the end of the world for us. It's driving my blood pressure to the moon. Speaking of blood pressure, I am so broke now that I cannot afford my medications which is an absolute priority.

I don't know what else to do. Everything costs money to fix. If I can't afford medication that I need, what makes you think I can afford marriage counseling?

[debtmonster]

I have been reading your back posts today... You guys seriously need to entertain the thought of marriage counseling if you want to stay married. You make it sound like she is in denial about your debt problems. You could also probably benefit from reading a financial book or 2. My favorite is The Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey. You need to sit down together and write up a budget spread sheet. On one side put down all the income you have coming in for this month. On the other, all the expenses. Getting all these debts together may shock your wife into realizing that big changes have to be made. Prioritize your debts- shelter, food, transportation, utilities, with debt payments last. In other words- what do I have to have to survive this month? If you have to have it, pay it first, then if there is any left for the others, divide it out among them if you feel the need to.

You are absolutely right. She is in total denial. I just got off the phone with her 3 minutes ago and told her I want to give back the BMW. She said, "No, I am not giving back my SUV." It's in her name and that's what is messing everything up. I told her that after we pay the mortgage and I take 20% out for self-employment taxes, we're going to have nothing left this month. This month's commission check is going to be very small as the business for August was horrible. If I make $2800-3000, I will be amazed. In the past, we used to make up to $7,000 to $8,000 gross per month. I told her that she is destroying our marriage with this. It will be easier if I just get divorced and go bankrupt on the house and everything if she refuses to give in. She keeps acting like it's the end of the world. It's just STUFF!! YOU CAN BUY IT AGAIN! I see it, but she doesn't! She is driving me insane. We fight about money EVER SINGLE F-ING DAY and it's pissing me off until there's no tomorrow.

[Flamingo]

My wife did it on her AMEX card and bought it from the Apple store on Apple.com.

Why would Sony take it back when Sony didn't sell it to me? Best Buy is the one who sold it.

We also bought a PS3 last year as well. We owe just over $2600 on our Best Buy card I think. All of this stuff is in my wife's name. We also owe $3800 to Rooms to Go for our living room sofa's and dining room table.

I would be happy to give it all back and start fresh. You have not talked to my wife. She is the most stubborn person you would EVER have met in your life. She totally refuses to give back anything. I have been hounding her forever to go bankrupt and she refuses. Now our money situation is REALLY getting bad. Before we had 3 incomes. Now we have one and it's starting to dwindle.

I'm sorry, I meant Best Buy not Sony...

You had the same situation with your wife last spring in your previous postings and several of us here who are still posting remember your situation. Unfortunately, your wife is still in a bad case of denial as she probably doesn't want her friends or family to know you are having financial difficulties and is trying to maintain the status quo. Reality will soon hit and it's a shame you cannot make her see what is happening. Have you actually sat down with her and did a spreadsheet of your finances and show her how it will all end if something isn't done? Especially if you now only have one income?

[woeisme]

Do you have to file CH 7? You could maybe do a Ch 13 with a small payback and not have to wait forever to file? Just a thought.

Good luck trying to get a trustee to let you keep a beamer while not paying a dime back to your creditors. I have a feeling you are setting yourself up for real problems there, no matter what your rationalizations are.

[arkienurse]

! My internet server is burping today, must be Gustav. Radar shows that the first rain bands will be in my area in the next 30-60 min.
Sorry about the double postings.

[arkienurse]

I have been reading your back posts today... You guys seriously need to entertain the thought of marriage counseling if you want to stay married. You make it sound like she is in denial about your debt problems. You could also probably benefit from reading a financial book or 2. My favorite is The Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey. You need to sit down together and write up a budget spread sheet. On one side put down all the income you have coming in for this month. On the other, all the expenses. Getting all these debts together may shock your wife into realizing that big changes have to be made. Prioritize your debts- shelter, food, transportation, utilities, with debt payments last. In other words- what do I have to have to survive this month? If you have to have it, pay it first, then if there is any left for the others, divide it out among them if you feel the need to.

[debtmonster]

You've made up your mind about what you want to do and nothing anyone here says will change it. Good luck.

TS

I know what I want to do but my wife won't agree. I told her, "Let's give ALL OF IT BACK and start over." I told her it's no big deal. We can buy it all over again. I told my mom about this and she said the same thing... "No woman wants to see all of her stuff taken away from her."

I guess guys don't care. We know we can get it back again. We think logically, not emotionally the way women do.

If I could just pay my house and nothing else, then I could save up cash and buy a new $40,000 SUV again with no payments. It would just take 2 years of saving up as long as I have no other bills.

[ThreadsSnapping]

You've made up your mind about what you want to do and nothing anyone here says will change it. Good luck.

TS

[debtmonster]

She can give it back and start over or she can wake up one day and has lawsuits all over the place and you've lost it all anyway. Seems to me that one way or another, the stuff is gone and major changes need to be made. Does she want to give it back on her terms or the creditors terms?

TS

I've yet to ever have a single lawsuit. I've had about 5 repo's and numerous charge-offs... more than you could ever imagine. Why have none of these people ever came to sue me?

We're current with most of my wife's bills, but that's going to be changing probably next month.

The big problem is that there's no jobs out by us. You have to drive 2 hours to get a decent job and the cost of driving there makes it not worth having a job to begin with. What's the point of spending a fortune in gas to make $200/wk? $200/wk. won't even put a dent in our bills. And then it costs $70-80/wk in fuel to make the $200. What's the point of putting in 45+ hours per week to bring home a net of just over $100 per week?! It's cheaper to just stay home and be unemployed.

Where are all of the $50-80k jobs that used to exist in 1997-2000?!?!? I WANT THEM BACK!!

[debtmonster]

DebtMonster,

You seem to have made up your mind and are intent on keeping the SUV one way or another. And I also live in the country so I understand the long drive but I never once thought I had to have a BMW SUV because of it. Have you looked into the Huyndai SUV's lately? I know 2 people who have both bought one over the summer and one bought it instead of a BMW SUV and the other instead of the Mercedes SUV. I have a Huyndai sedan and hubby says it handles just as well as his BMW did.

And there are other SUV's that get 30mpg. I believe the Toyota Highlander is one of them and you can pick up a 2 year old one for about 18K. I don't see why you need to pay for a 43K vehicle when it can be replaced with a vehicle just as reliable and safe for less than half that. At the very least try and find a used version of the one you have now and buy that one. Yes, the interest will be sky high at first but your payment will still be lower and you can refi it in about a 6 months to a year to a more reasonable rate.

TS

I would never own another Hyundai or Kia again. The BMW will far outlast a Hyundai. Try putting 300,000 to 400,000 miles on a Hyundai. The Highlander does not get 30 MPG unless you get the Hybrid. No bank will finance me without a huge down payment. The thing is we have the car we like in our possession right now. If we lose it, we will have to go without a vehicle for a very, very long time until we can save up to replace it. If I lose these vehicles, I have no intentions on paying 23-26% interest on a used car from some lame buy-here pay-here and then deal with all of the break downs.

If I were single and not married, this bankruptcy would be a WALK IN THE PARK. I would give it all bank, including the house and go rent a $400/mo. apartment some place out in Kansas or something. Being married to a wife that wants to keep everything, it makes it very hard.

Next month's income may be $3,000. Out of that I need to put away 20% for taxes, $400-500 for my business advertising and then all of our other bills which are something in the lines of this:

Car #1 $740
Car #2 $309
Mortgage $821
2nd mortgage $110
Electric $120
Gas $400
Food $400-500
Car insurance $110 (which is cheap for 2 brand new cars, including the $43,000 BMW!!!)
Home owner's insurance $240 (paid every 3 months)
Internet/phone $100 (used for business purposes)
Rooms to Go $75
Then there's the credit cards
Bank of America, HSBC (several), Citibank, Amex, Sam's Club and a long list of others.
Clothing... home repair...

the list goes on and on and on and a $3,000 gross check will not cover it.

What sucks is that we're over the median income for most of this year. I have to wait for 6 months now. And by December, the Christmas bonus will come and mess it all up and then the clock will start again... so it may be until July off 2009 that I can file!!!! THIS SUCKS! I want to do this NOW and get it over with.

The problem is... how do I do it with this history of income?

1/15/2008 3384.78
2/15/2008 2983.16
3/14/2008 2998.66
4/15/2008 4250.89
5/15/2008 5212.48 (plus had day job income added on top of this of about $1600)
6/16/2008 4328.14 ($1600 of day job income added)
7/15/2008 4977.02
8/15/2008 4615.87

Those numbers above are income I made from a home business, plus we had extra jobs. We don't have the jobs anymore since we left them to go be with my wife's mother who was dieing from cancer. She ended up passing away at the end of August. She lived 340 miles away. My wife ended up acting as a full time nurse for her as she could not walk or do anything in the last days.

[ThreadsSnapping]

She can give it back and start over or she can wake up one day and has lawsuits all over the place and you've lost it all anyway. Seems to me that one way or another, the stuff is gone and major changes need to be made. Does she want to give it back on her terms or the creditors terms?

TS