Keeping a computer in Ch. 7? Friend of mine's vehicle repo'd by unsecured creditor!

[epiphany]

A troll!??! Are you nuts?!?!

If you are not a troll, then who posted all the foul profanity filled posts under your user name that were removed from the forum a few months back?

ep

[debtmonster]

If you are not a troll, then who posted all the foul profanity filled posts under your user name that were removed from the forum a few months back?

ep

I was never removed for anything for any foul language. You have me confused with somebody else. Trolls post things to get people riled up over nothing. I am here posting my situations. I don't see how that is being a troll. I am posting facts and figures. Trolls just post messages insulting people all day. I am not here doing that.

[lrprn]

Have you tried sitting down with her to show her the income vs. expenses written down on paper in a straightforward way? Sometimes seeing the cold, hard figures that come up so very red every month will wake spouses up.

Although this won't be easy for you to hear, you have been finding lots of reasons why everything we suggest won't work. That's because you truly don't want to do the hard thing that I think you know must be done here - cut your wife's money off and rein in her spending forcibly by cutting up the credit cards, giving her a weekly spending budget, and making her stick to it. If she spends her money unwisely, then it's gone until the next money outlay. If she leaves you over this, then you'll know she loves your money more than she loves you.

That's the only solution here. You two are swirling the financial and marriage drain. Anything short of drastic action is just rearranging the deck chairs on your self-built Titanic.

I wish I didn't need to be so blunt, but you are sincerely asking for help and advice. Here's mine - you need to wake up and stop enabling your wife to push you both into financial ruin and allowing the useless arguing that is destroying your marriage to take the place of positive action. You have the power to change this, but you have to make the hard decision to take the hard path to make it happen.

We are here for you, DM, although it may not feel like it right now. Please keep coming back, but realize that we aren't miracle workers, just a bunch of realistic people who have each had to come to grips with tough financial situations and wake up to reality in our own ways.

[debtmonster]

She's not spending any more. All of the bills we have are from old debts mostly after we moved into our new home. This was our first home and we started with nothing.

I showed her the Excel spread sheet. She seems to thinking that going back to an $8/hr. job will fix everything. It just sucks that it costs an absolute fortune in transportation to get that income. She needs to go to college and get a degree so she can get a $40-60k job in the future. These problems we're going through now will be nothing.

Thanks for your feedback.

[gymbo]

Hi.

About your wife... It's a process. She'll get there. She'll see where you are coming from eventually.

I don't think you are a troll. But you said something along the lines of "We'll just file BK and then buy another 40k car." and you also said "filing BK is no big deal!"

Based on what you have said, you cannot afford a $40k car. And you don't need it. There are many, many, reliable cars available for much less than $40k. I have a dog and a daughter and the priciest vehicle we have ever owned is $16k.

And in most people's opinion's (even here), filing BK is a VERY big deal. If you are this far in debt, it is most likely your best option, but it is still a big deal.

You have a lot going on in your past (eviction, repo) that will work against you whether you file or not. But I think (and please do not get upset) you AND your wife BOTH need to realize you are living beyond your means... not always, maybe, but you are now Life sucks that way.

To be clear, I am an expert in spending more than I make... I can justify any purchase with reasons why I deserve it... That's why I am in this boat too. So I am not trying to judge... but if your wife does come around and you file BK and all goes swimmingly... then you run out and spend spend spend... well... then you really will have nothing.

Sorry to be a downer.

[debtmonster]

Before we were not living beyond our means. Now we are since our income is almost cut in half. I have talked to people who have filed BK and they told me it was no big deal.

I don't know why the banks don't offer 1.9% financing on used cars instead of new ones. BMW is the only one I know that does this. You can get a 2 or 3 year old BMW with .9 or 1.9% financing and get a 100,000 mile warranty to boot. Why can't GM, Toyota, Honda and all of the others do this instead of punishing us with 12 to 18% used car interest rates?

The way to buy a used car is from a person who was ready to trade it in and buy it for the amount the dealer was going to give them. The used car dealers typically get $5k in profit when you buy a used car. I can't see paying that kind of money and I don't have $16k cash to buy it for cash.

As of right now, my father-in-law has that Honda Oddsey van. If we had the cash, I bet I could buy it for $16,000 to $17,000 from him. I see the same van selling for like $23,000 on the used lots. I'm not a big fan of mini-van's, but if we did the BK, I would love to take the payments over. That vehicle would be very practical for us, plus it would do him the favor of getting rid of it. He can no longer afford the payments since my wife's mom passed away a couple weeks ago.

My wife is coming home tomorrow. I'm sure she'll do what she always does... every single time I bring up the BK subject, she tells me to shut up and stop bothering her about it. I told her that she cannot keep ignoring this. I told her wait until April of 2009 when we file our taxes and I have not paid any of the vouchers all in 2008 because I've been paying creditors instead. If she thinks it's bad now... wait until it's time to deal with the IRS and get slammed with penalties and fees that you can't make go away. It will make doing a BK look like a picnic.

[epiphany]

You can get a 2 or 3 year old BMW with .9 or 1.9% financing and get a 100,000 mile warranty to boot

Where? I'd like to do this.

Thanks,
ep

[debtmonster]

Where? I'd like to do this.

Thanks,
ep

I didn't know about it until I went to the dealership to get my BMW serviced and when an ex-coworker told me about it.

Try Fields BMW in Orlando, FL and ask for a sales person. I think they limit the car to being like 3 years old. A 3 year old BMW takes a major beating in depreciation, so you'd get a heck of a deal. I think all of the BMW dealers can offer this. I don't think you need perfect credit, but you may need a decent income level to qualify.

[Flamingo]

Before we were not living beyond our means. Now we are since our income is almost cut in half. I have talked to people who have filed BK and they told me it was no big deal. (Big Snip....) My wife is coming home tomorrow. I'm sure she'll do what she always does... every single time I bring up the BK subject, she tells me to shut up and stop bothering her about it. I told her that she cannot keep ignoring this. I told her wait until April of 2009 when we file our taxes and I have not paid any of the vouchers all in 2008 because I've been paying creditors instead. If she thinks it's bad now... wait until it's time to deal with the IRS and get slammed with penalties and fees that you can't make go away. It will make doing a BK look like a picnic.

DebtMonster...You are rehashing exactly what you posted this past spring on here. Many posters tried to help you out the same way and you were at your wits end at that time also. Our advice has not changed even though the posters names responding to you may have changed. You have been overspending for years and you indirectly state that in your first sentence above advising you had the income to pay the high bills when you had the money. When the money ended you still had the high bills. That is living beyond your means because you did not have a safety cushion on hand in the event of job loss. If you lost jobs and had no debt or low debt, you would be fine. I know you don't want to hear that but that is exactly what you and your wife have done and put yourselves in the position you are now and you don't know what to do because your wife is bucking you all the way and still wants that lifestyle.

Major change is extremely difficult. You need solid professional help and advice as to your finances, BK and your marriage. As I remember stating to you back in February or March, none of us can physically come there and hold your hand to get that done for you...we can only advise you what to do. I am sorry you are going through all you are going through but consistent complaining about the same item will get you nowhere. All you have to do when your wife gets home is sit her down, explain what needs to be done and if she doesn't cooperate you will have to do it yourself, and advise her that the marriage is shot if she cannot cooperate with you as her spouse as she is as much as fault as you are. It's just that bad.

I wish you well in your endeavors because from your past postings earlier this year and what you are advising, BK is your only option with the huge amount of debt you and your wife have accumulated. Once you are free of that burden and can change your lifestyles so it doesn't occur again, things will get better.

[debtmonster]

Where can I get this help free of charge as I do not have money to pay for it professionally?

Nothing will ever change. I need to get rid of credit altogether for the rest of my life. I am not a good candidate to have credit. Maybe other people are, but I am not.

[jessegirl]

hey DB - I know where you are coming from. But, your wife needs to stop acting like a child. You need to put your foot down and make a appointment with an attorney and let her hear it for herself. Sometimes, if it comes from someone else the person will listen. Who pays the bills in the house? If it is you, then make her pay for them, let her write out the checks and see where all the money is going to and let her try to rob peter to pay paul. Maybe she needs to see it with her own eyes. I really feel sorry for you. It seems like the burden is left on you and the wife goes about her business as she pleases. Make the appointment for a free consultation today. Goodluck.

[JRScott]

I would never own another Hyundai or Kia again. The BMW will far outlast a Hyundai. Try putting 300,000 to 400,000 miles on a Hyundai. The Highlander does not get 30 MPG unless you get the Hybrid. No bank will finance me without a huge down payment. The thing is we have the car we like in our possession right now. If we lose it, we will have to go without a vehicle for a very, very long time until we can save up to replace it. If I lose these vehicles, I have no intentions on paying 23-26% interest on a used car from some lame buy-here pay-here and then deal with all of the break downs.

If I were single and not married, this bankruptcy would be a WALK IN THE PARK. I would give it all bank, including the house and go rent a $400/mo. apartment some place out in Kansas or something. Being married to a wife that wants to keep everything, it makes it very hard.

Next month's income may be $3,000. Out of that I need to put away 20% for taxes, $400-500 for my business advertising and then all of our other bills which are something in the lines of this:

Car #1 $740
Car #2 $309
Mortgage $821
2nd mortgage $110
Electric $120
Gas $400
Food $400-500
Car insurance $110 (which is cheap for 2 brand new cars, including the $43,000 BMW!!!)
Home owner's insurance $240 (paid every 3 months)
Internet/phone $100 (used for business purposes)
Rooms to Go $75
Then there's the credit cards
Bank of America, HSBC (several), Citibank, Amex, Sam's Club and a long list of others.
Clothing... home repair...

the list goes on and on and on and a $3,000 gross check will not cover it.

What sucks is that we're over the median income for most of this year. I have to wait for 6 months now. And by December, the Christmas bonus will come and mess it all up and then the clock will start again... so it may be until July off 2009 that I can file!!!! THIS SUCKS! I want to do this NOW and get it over with.

The problem is... how do I do it with this history of income?

1/15/2008 3384.78
2/15/2008 2983.16
3/14/2008 2998.66
4/15/2008 4250.89
5/15/2008 5212.48 (plus had day job income added on top of this of about $1600)
6/16/2008 4328.14 ($1600 of day job income added)
7/15/2008 4977.02
8/15/2008 4615.87

Those numbers above are income I made from a home business, plus we had extra jobs. We don't have the jobs anymore since we left them to go be with my wife's mother who was dieing from cancer. She ended up passing away at the end of August. She lived 340 miles away. My wife ended up acting as a full time nurse for her as she could not walk or do anything in the last days.

With your income as it is you will probably need to wait 3-6 months at the lower pay rate before you can file.

You seem adamant on keeping the SUV but really it is not what you can afford on your current wage.

Your house is also to expensive eating up 31% of your income. The SUV if you make 3000 is eating up 25% of your income. That's over half your income just for a home and transportation before counting gas, food, electricity, water, sewer, taxes etc. You mention you have to put away 20% for your taxes, if your taxes will be that much this year that means that you are consuming 76% of your income just in home/SUV/taxes before buying any food etc.

You can't live that way.

Regardless at the moment the main problem is income. At the present you probably have to much income to file a Chapter 7. If you filed today you could possible get into a Chapter 13, but you'd need the SUV which is probably to new to cram down on payments and the house in it and hopefully cram down the house.

Ultimately though I don't believe in the long run you can keep the house and car. Even if you later do a Chapter 7 6 months down the road, do not sign reaffirmation agreements for them, if you do you will probably wreck your life as I see now sustained way you can pay them off in the future in your present situation.

[JRScott]

Yes, I have showed her. She thinks that going back to work for $200/wk. will fix this. I told her she would need to make $3,000 to $4,000/mo. to fix this. $200/wk. will not put a dent in the money we need. It's just making it worse because she's putting all of those miles on the car to get to work since we live so remote out in the middle of nowhere. For me to get a good paying job, I have to drive 90-120 miles away. We can't sell our house because it's upside down. And even if we did sell it, we can't buy another one since the banks are more strict about giving out loans. And now that our credit score is like mid 500's and my wife's is about 511, nobody will sell us a house. Plus the fact that I have apt evictions on my credit report from the past, no apt will let me rent. I already talked to a couple about it. Not to mention that renting is a scam. When you rent, you're simply paying somebody else's mortgage and not getting the tax benefits. I get a near $10,000/yr. write off that I could not get with renting an apt. And an apt similar to what I am living in now would cost more than we're paying. I've talked to lots of friends who have seen my house and when I tell them what I pay for the mortgage and utilities all of them have said unanimously, "You will never get a place that cheap down here. You're better off staying there."

It's getting to the point where suicide will be the only way out for me.

Okay suicide is not the answer, that won't solve anything.

Have you asked your wife to pray with you about it. Even if you are not normally church going or praying people, it might do a lot of good to just kneel together and pray.

You might mention how much you love one another, how important your marriage is.
You might mention the drastic loss of income.
You might mention that your wife has attempted to get employment but it is not enough to meet the present need.
You might ask about the house and whether you should keep it.
You might ask about the SUV and whether you should keep it.
Do this for each such thing. Listing each out best to your memory in the prayer asking for the Lord's guidance on each issue.
Ask that he awaken each of your minds to the situation fully, that you might be able to find the solution that can keep you together.

Hopefully new doors will be opened and new understanding gained.

[JRScott]

Before we were not living beyond our means. Now we are since our income is almost cut in half. I have talked to people who have filed BK and they told me it was no big deal.

I don't know why the banks don't offer 1.9% financing on used cars instead of new ones. BMW is the only one I know that does this. You can get a 2 or 3 year old BMW with .9 or 1.9% financing and get a 100,000 mile warranty to boot. Why can't GM, Toyota, Honda and all of the others do this instead of punishing us with 12 to 18% used car interest rates?

The way to buy a used car is from a person who was ready to trade it in and buy it for the amount the dealer was going to give them. The used car dealers typically get $5k in profit when you buy a used car. I can't see paying that kind of money and I don't have $16k cash to buy it for cash.

As of right now, my father-in-law has that Honda Oddsey van. If we had the cash, I bet I could buy it for $16,000 to $17,000 from him. I see the same van selling for like $23,000 on the used lots. I'm not a big fan of mini-van's, but if we did the BK, I would love to take the payments over. That vehicle would be very practical for us, plus it would do him the favor of getting rid of it. He can no longer afford the payments since my wife's mom passed away a couple weeks ago.

My wife is coming home tomorrow. I'm sure she'll do what she always does... every single time I bring up the BK subject, she tells me to shut up and stop bothering her about it. I told her that she cannot keep ignoring this. I told her wait until April of 2009 when we file our taxes and I have not paid any of the vouchers all in 2008 because I've been paying creditors instead. If she thinks it's bad now... wait until it's time to deal with the IRS and get slammed with penalties and fees that you can't make go away. It will make doing a BK look like a picnic.

Don't pay cash for the van. Remember you can only exempt so much when you file bankruptcy. Better to perhaps let the father in law let you borrow the vehicle until after bankruptcy then either buy it then or make the payments for him.

Try to pray some, I think that's what you need most. The kind of help you need most right now we cannot provide, but God, he can provide if you trust in him.

[woeisme]

You won't consider counseling, although there are ways to get free counseling from clergy or other income based places (have you even checked your insurance? I was really surprised when I found out we only have a $10 co-pay for each counseling session when my step-son was having problems due to the death of his mother).

Your wife is suffering from several emotional upheavals at the moment, including the death of her mother, which might be contributing to her being so inflexible on another big scary change at the moment, bankruptcy. That's tough, and is complicated by the timing with your financial problems, but it is really possible that as she has time to cope with the other issues going on, maybe she will start to wake up to the financial problems.

But please, don't consider a permanent solution like suicide to a temporary problem. Your life is surely worth more than an SUV and a pile of bills!