is it this simple?

[boiler704]

Been back for a few weeks. told all lawyers about the income and they all said that because it is not documented anywhere essentially it does not matter because i can not provide any paystubs for it and it was not consistent. I was concerned as well but 3 lawyers all told me the same thing so i guess i'm just rolling with it.

[Cali]

Logan - I've NEVER lied about my income or on a job application. I didn't have a reason to do either because my pay was more than enough to get me the high CL's I was given. And my education and experience were more than enough to get the job I was applying for.

If you have to lie to get something, maybe you don't need it.

[TEW]

How many of you lied about your income when applying for credit cards? If you go through life playing by the rules then you will get taken advantage of by the guys who will stretch the rules.

Would you lie on a job application by omitting something you know would jeopardize getting hired? Do you stretch your write offs on your tax return?

When I had an interview 14 years ago for a company that was a stepping stone for me they asked where I see myself in 5 years? I guarantee no one interviewing wanted to be there in 5 years and I guarantee that if you told the truth you would not get hired.

There are times when you don't want to tell the whole story.....

I did not have sexual relations with that girl.....

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Well, Logan, since you asked...

How many of you lied about your income when applying for credit cards?

Not me, not once. I don't want debt to begin with, and if I need to lie to get it, it's a safe bet I'm not making a wise choice in acquiring it.

If you go through life playing by the rules then you will get taken advantage of by the guys who will stretch the rules.

That may be true, that may seem true, but there are thousands, maybe millions of people who play by the rules but live full and productive, happy lives. Playing by the rules, as you put it, does not lead to a life full of incessant victimization. It leads to wisdom, which is what one uses to navigate these little skirmishes. And it also produces what is known as "the courage of one's convictions." That's a polite way of saying that I have brass balls the size of Idaho now, just from telling the truth all the time.

I also have the respect and trust of most of the people who have ever worked with me, and am greeted with smiles wherever I go. It's just that whole truthiness thing.

Also, there are higher things in life, at least to me. If nothing else, I do not want to wake up one morning having become a person I dislike, do not respect, and think is a scumbag.

Would you lie on a job application by omitting something you know would jeopardize getting hired? Do you stretch your write offs on your tax return?

Never, on both counts. I should add that even in my most desperate unemployed moments, I did not even consider an "up-revision" on my already completely accurate and attractive resume. What I have built (by playing the rules all these years ) is solid; I need not lie about it and I never did. Note that I have no college degree, no great legs, no overwhelmingly sweet personality, no additional bonus to bring to the table in the interview. I go as I am and I take my solid resume with me and it has worked, consistently, for many years now.

Why? Because I work in a technical field, and I don't want to have to be responsible for knowing something I'm dumber than a box of rocks on. That, and I've seen the hell these people go through in my field, the ones who did lie on the resume... the hell of embarrassment, discomfort, intense frustration and finally, mounting fear that immediately precedes their termination for what amounts to incompetency. Even if they work through it to a point of competency by some miracle of furtive on-the-job learning, it's a situation where everyone on the team decides how much they like the guy, and then the ones that do spend a lot of time training him on the sly and getting the calls to fix up his messes. And that's rare. Usually they get fired.

When I had an interview 14 years ago for a company that was a stepping stone for me they asked where I see myself in 5 years? I guarantee no one interviewing wanted to be there in 5 years and I guarantee that if you told the truth you would not get hired.

See, that's exactly the place where my system would work magnificently for me (and it has). I don't want to be in that sort of place, and if I am clear about what my goals and desires are they'll see that I'm not a good fit and we both move on. The two WORST jobs I ever had in my life were places where they played all those interview tricks, like the one you describe, or the one where they insult you openly and if you respond, you're not hired. I got them because I didn't understand the insult enough to look anything but confused, and because I actually tell them the 5 year truth: I have no idea where I'll be in 5 years, but there are so many exciting technical developments here that I'm sure staying won't be an issue.

There are times when you don't want to tell the whole story.....

I did not have sexual relations with that girl.....

Well, I can tell the truth on that: I did not have sexual relations with that girl, the other girl, or any girl at any point in my life. Just never found anything I liked better than boys.

But if I were actually a lesbian president (oh! there'd be GALAS poppin up all over the place!) who had to answer that question, I'd again tell the truth: "I did have sexual relations with that girl, and I deeply regret the trouble and controversy this has caused everyone. Can I have a hug now?" It's far, far easier to forgive a confessed misdeed than one that was done, then covered up and blamed on everything and everyone else ("GLOBAL WARMING! Yeah, yer Honor, THAT'S why I been availin' myself of that sweet young thang... GLOBAL WARMING got me all hot and confused, and then thar she was, and oh what a purty sight, enough to make a puppy break his chain, I swear! I do hope y'all can forgive me." )

Just sayin, Logan. It CAN be done, and in ways that often produce better outcomes than the mediocrity of lies do. Offered for your reading pleasure, do with it what you will.

[Logan]

[QUOTE=Cali;189256]Logan - I've NEVER lied about my income or on a job application. I didn't have a reason to do either because my pay was more than enough to get me the high CL's I was given. And my education and experience were more than enough to get the job I was applying for.

I work in a very competitive field where the job I applied for had 14000 applications and they would hire 600 people for the year. And all 14K are experience and educated and many candidates certainly would not be 100% honest with there answers.

It appears to me that everyone here is strategizing their personal BK to fill in the blanks and answer the questions properly so they can get there debts discharged. That is my point.....

[Logan]

Well, Logan, since you asked...



Not me, not once. I don't want debt to begin with, and if I need to lie to get it, it's a safe bet I'm not making a wise choice in acquiring it.



That may be true, that may seem true, but there are thousands, maybe millions of people who play by the rules but live full and productive, happy lives. Playing by the rules, as you put it, does not lead to a life full of incessant victimization. It leads to wisdom, which is what one uses to navigate these little skirmishes. And it also produces what is known as "the courage of one's convictions." That's a polite way of saying that I have brass balls the size of Idaho now, just from telling the truth all the time.

I also have the respect and trust of most of the people who have ever worked with me, and am greeted with smiles wherever I go. It's just that whole truthiness thing.

Also, there are higher things in life, at least to me. If nothing else, I do not want to wake up one morning having become a person I dislike, do not respect, and think is a scumbag.



Never, on both counts. I should add that even in my most desperate unemployed moments, I did not even consider an "up-revision" on my already completely accurate and attractive resume. What I have built (by playing the rules all these years ) is solid; I need not lie about it and I never did. Note that I have no college degree, no great legs, no overwhelmingly sweet personality, no additional bonus to bring to the table in the interview. I go as I am and I take my solid resume with me and it has worked, consistently, for many years now.

Why? Because I work in a technical field, and I don't want to have to be responsible for knowing something I'm dumber than a box of rocks on. That, and I've seen the hell these people go through in my field, the ones who did lie on the resume... the hell of embarrassment, discomfort, intense frustration and finally, mounting fear that immediately precedes their termination for what amounts to incompetency. Even if they work through it to a point of competency by some miracle of furtive on-the-job learning, it's a situation where everyone on the team decides how much they like the guy, and then the ones that do spend a lot of time training him on the sly and getting the calls to fix up his messes. And that's rare. Usually they get fired.



See, that's exactly the place where my system would work magnificently for me (and it has). I don't want to be in that sort of place, and if I am clear about what my goals and desires are they'll see that I'm not a good fit and we both move on. The two WORST jobs I ever had in my life were places where they played all those interview tricks, like the one you describe, or the one where they insult you openly and if you respond, you're not hired. I got them because I didn't understand the insult enough to look anything but confused, and because I actually tell them the 5 year truth: I have no idea where I'll be in 5 years, but there are so many exciting technical developments here that I'm sure staying won't be an issue.



Well, I can tell the truth on that: I did not have sexual relations with that girl, the other girl, or any girl at any point in my life. Just never found anything I liked better than boys.

But if I were actually a lesbian president (oh! there'd be GALAS poppin up all over the place!) who had to answer that question, I'd again tell the truth: "I did have sexual relations with that girl, and I deeply regret the trouble and controversy this has caused everyone. Can I have a hug now?" It's far, far easier to forgive a confessed misdeed than one that was done, then covered up and blamed on everything and everyone else ("GLOBAL WARMING! Yeah, yer Honor, THAT'S why I been availin' myself of that sweet young thang... GLOBAL WARMING got me all hot and confused, and then thar she was, and oh what a purty sight, enough to make a puppy break his chain, I swear! I do hope y'all can forgive me." )

Just sayin, Logan. It CAN be done, and in ways that often produce better outcomes than the mediocrity of lies do. Offered for your reading pleasure, do with it what you will.

Fresh,

The career I have chosen is all about stepping stones. The problem is the companies that hire you on your way up don't want to here that you're using them for experience even though they know it. 2 companies ago 50% of the newly hired were leaving for other companies and the other 50% just couldn't get hired elsewhere. In the interview they asked in multiple ways why we would not go to other companies and of course we all gave them the reasons why we would stay. In my new hire group there were 4 of us and 3 out of the 4 left within 1 1/2 years and the other guy interviewed for a different company but didn't get hired.

BTW..the company I'm at now took 14,000 applications when they started hiring and they charged $100 for the application. The starting pay was 28K a year and they hired about 600 people that year. When you paid $250 dollars to go to an interview prep to get the edge over the other 13,999 applicants they would tell you what to say and what not to say. I can also tell you that if everyone was completely honest I would not be working with some of the best and most talented people because they would not have been hired.

It's not about lying it's about answering correctly. That's really what it's all about......


Logan

[Cali]

I filed w/out waiting the time that many have waited. I retained my attorney end of March and filed first week of June. And the only reason it was that much time between was because the law firm was backed up with other filers.

In the end people will do whatever they feel will work for them. But for me, it is better to be honest on all points and go with whatever happens.

I work in a very competitive field where the job I applied for had 14000 applications and they would hire 600 people for the year. And all 14K are experience and educated and many candidates certainly would not be 100% honest with there answers.

It appears to me that everyone here is strategizing their personal BK to fill in the blanks and answer the questions properly so they can get there debts discharged. That is my point.....

[TEW]

Logan
I think I can make a comparison.
When you file your income tax return it is perfectly legal to avoid paying tax you do have to that’s called tax avoidance.
Tax evasion on the other hand is a felony that is not paying taxes you’re supposing to.
When I filed my BK I filed it in a way and when it is most beneficial to me. I can guaranty you that there is nothing illegal on any of my filing information. By omission or any other way.

[Niece]

I am in a similar mix, well no job, assets, help from my parents. I reported everything as is. My attorney is confident it'll be straight forward. He has a lot of bk experience so I trust him for the most part. I hope that this eases your pain in some way. My income from my parents I did report and there's no real record of it in my bank statements. We'll see how my 341 goes.

[boiler704]

I am in a similar mix, well no job, assets, help from my parents. I reported everything as is. My attorney is confident it'll be straight forward. He has a lot of bk experience so I trust him for the most part. I hope that this eases your pain in some way. My income from my parents I did report and there's no real record of it in my bank statements. We'll see how my 341 goes.

Thanks, I'm still waiting on all the paperwork to be filed but I'm hoping everything goes smooth. I don't have any objection to showing the income because I'm still way below the means test but I'm just going with what every lawyer told me to do.