99% sure I'm filing, long post

[mixingbole]

I've been considering BK7 since getting hit with a $5000 medical bill relating to a miscarriage. (I mention drinking below and it was NOT in any way related to drinking, I have a hormone disorder and couldn't keep my betas up). I applied for the hospitals 'Charity Care' program, and when signing the paperwork at the hospital I was told that there would be 'no problem' but if there was something missing they would call me. I was never called or notified, and then received a bill from a collection agency (a year later, to the DAY of the surgery for the amount ). I tried talking to the hospital, but all they will say is "It must have been rejected". They didn't even give me an option to make payments to them, and its on my CR now. My interest rates haven't spiked, but I'm sure it is just a matter of time.

The frustrating part of this is that I knew I was getting medical insurance within 5 days of the surgery. The DR wouldn't let me wait a week to have the it, basically insisting it was an emergency. I was so uncomfortable with how they treated me throughout that I ended up going to a new DR who specializes in my condition and he said that unless I had an infection (I didn't), waiting 5 days should have been fine.

I have approx $6000 in credit card debt, a $2000 loan, $16000 owed on my car (purchased in Jan when my old one died, not a luxury vehicle by any means), and $22000 in student loans (can't be discharged). I also have around $12000 in medical bills from when I was in college and didn't have insurance.

Since it was all 3+ years old I figured I should just move on, try to build, and have so-so credit until it all fell off. Then I got whacked with this new mc bill, and with rising fuel costs and my 120 mile commute to work, I am in way, way, WAY over my head. I end up borrowing money to get me to payday every week and while my friends have all been great about it, I don't want to continue to have to accept their generosity, in what should be a gainful employment.

I'm supposed to be getting married next April(09), and I just want to be able to start over with my soon husband. He had a BK from five years ago, before we met. He bought a home last year, which we now live in. He has his own debt that he is tied up in (its not bad, but its enough that he can't pull me out/pay everything himself), and for all 'legal' intents and purposes we are pretty much roommates, though as I make slightly more ($35k), I pay a little more.

ANYWHO

I started calling and talking to lawyers. I've printed 3 copies of all the forms and started plugging numbers. But there is a wall:

I am not on any of the paperwork related to the house, so I assume I am a straight no-asset chapter 7. I would need to reaffirm my car, because my work is far away and I absolutely cannot find anything that pays remotely well near home, I've tried. I even did two documents detailing my gas mileage to the exact mile for my current job and how I'd do working closer to home. I make $10 more an hour working away like I do.

One lawyer I talked to said that for it to work as a chapter 7 I'd have to have my fiance fake moving out and pretend to be renting to me. That sent up red flags with both myself and the fiance because I don't want to do anything fraudulent.

I spoke with another lawyer who said they shouldn't question it if we aren't married and I am not fully supporting him. He still isn't sure if I'll meet criteria for a 7, even though I am below the median for my state (PA).

My questions are as follows:

1 - Is my fiance's income going to count toward my HHI? If yes, how does this work when we have no legal obligation to each other?

2 - If I get married next April (plan to file in Sept) will they come and reopen my case?

3 - Will my medical expenses, which I can't afford right now, be able to be calculated into my exemptions? When I stop paying before filing, I will have money freed up to get the medication/pump I need to maintain my blood sugar & related issues.

4 - Will the trustee object to med exemptions related to depression/alcohol counseling? I'm not a raging alcoholic, but after my last mc I started drinking pretty heavily, and I admit that I have a problem. I am overwhelmed from the moment I wake up and I get myself sick thinking about things until I have a drink or two to keep me mellow. I still function, but I don't want to live my life like this, and someday I want to have a healthy happy child, so I've got to take care of myself mentally and physically first. Every day I hate myself for letting it get out of hand, but I've looked into a variety of treatment options and am waiting for my insurance to tell me how much they would cover.

5 - I am on a contract to a company that is on contract with my employer. That expires in June 09, but everyone knows it is going to be renewed. Will this count as a potential change in income, and should I bring it up? The reason I don't want to do a 13 is because even at $100 a month, if my contract ends (it goes up for renewal each year) and I have to take minimum wage for awhile, I won't be able to afford my car + expenses. I know I could change to a 7 then, but I also worry about a 13, because then how will I explain being able to afford to get married/his income getting factored in, etc. etc.

I know this is a lot, so thanks to anyone who replies. I just want to get through this so I can do treatment, and come out of it ready to start my life again.

(Sorry for any grammar/spelling/typos)

Edit: Added note to be sure nobody though my mc was related to drinking.

[Priceless ProSe]

Have you looked into filing suit against the original Dr.? I might request the medical records (charts) from when you were dealing with him. It is not neccecarily malpractice but if you can explain that he told you there was no option....he might want to settle.

May I ask what type of surgery this was? If a prudent Dr would also seethis as an emergency then you probably wouldnt have a case. If the operation was to remove the MC fetus/placenta then I would say that a prudent DR would want it done right away, but you did have the right to say no. ALot of people dont realize thisbut in most cases you can say no, and if they continue to treat you it becomes battery.

Alcohol is hard to quit, I feel for you and wish you the best. It is something you have to do for yourself, but given your medical history I am sure you are well educated on the subject.

1) I would keep most of this information to myself, "I pay xx$ to live at this house that is owned by Mr. xx". I would not volunteer the fact that he lived there as well (unless it is required), nor that you plan on getting married, or anything else unless you have to. Even if they found out I dont see how they could include his income as it seems you keep your finances separate.
2) No, not for this reason alone.
3) Your medical expenses for copays, prescriptions, monthly fees, glucose equipment, etc. should all be apart of your exemptions because they are neccecary expenses. A 5k bill that you are trying to have discharged will most likely not count in your exemptions, but I have heard this varies by area (I bet no on this)
4)No he wont object, IMO. You are in need of help. This question reads like the answers to a CAGE test (Have you ever felt you should Cut down on your drinking? Have people Annoyed you by criticizing your drinking? Have you ever felt bad or Guilty about your drinking? Have you ever had a drink first thing in the morning to steady your nerves or to get rid of a hangover (Eye opener)? . you say "not an alchoholic", and I am not trying to call you out, scare you away, or anything, but....well you know. I commend you for wanting to stop drinking. There are many types of treatment, such as meetings, that cost noting at all, I would encourage you look into these.

5) There is a section on the schedules that asks about any future (within 12 months) change in income, you can explain this here. It doesnt sound like aything at all to worry about.

Good luck to you in all your endevours, I believe in you, and if you slip up I will not judge you (we are all human)

[mixingbole]

The surgery was for a D&E. There was no fetus or fetal tissue present at the first ultrasound, and that is when she told me I had to have it. She said my uterus and betas were indicative of a 9 week pregnancy, but due to my hormone issue history I keep an accurate calendar of when we do and if there is even a remote chance we weren't careful enough (broken cd, etc). According to my calendar there was only once in that whole six months where we didn't use 2 forms of BC, and that was six weeks prior on vacation. I told her as much and she pretty much ignored it. So they did a beta test and I dropped by 2000 and she said she was sure it was a mc. I insisted on having a second ultrasound the morning before D&E and there was a small white dot right in the middle. I went nuts crying because I wanted to wait, but she kept insisting that it was 'nothing' and my beta levels dropping meant it was a blighted ovum. I was pretty hysterical and kept asking what the dot was and she just said 'nothing, nothing'. I asked to please let me wait until the end of the week when my insurance kicked in, and she said not to worry about it because the hospital had a program if I didn't get state aid. She then (now imagine how upset I was) gave me a slip with what would have been my due date to take to the welfare office. She said to apply for medical assistance and not to mention the mc, because they approved almost everyone who was pregnant. I was so upset and I didn't want to do welfare fraud (I actually know a girl who got in HUGE trouble for it), so I just went home and cried until it was time to go have it done. I still wonder to this day about that dot. When my future SIL got pregnant her first US looked almost the same. I feel so guilty all the time. I thought about getting a lawyer but I don't want to relive it over and over and over for years to come. I don't believe that a doctor would purposely make me have a D&E, and I try to tell myself she had to see something wrong, but then I also think Dr.s are human too and could make a mistake.

I didn't mean to imply that I didn't see myself as an alcoholic, so I wasn't offended. I just know that on the internet people often assume things and I didn't want someone to think I drank myself into a miscarriage, or that I was to the point where I had no regard for the lives of others and got trashed and started driving around. I'm not a blackout drunk, but I am usually 'buzzed' unless I am at work. I mostly sit at home and read or paint or hang out with DF, but I know that still makes me an alcoholic, because without it I get such bad anxiety and all. Part of why it makes me so mad is because my gram, who I adored, was an alcoholic and I never wanted to end up like this. It was just the only thing that felt like it was keeping me from losing it from guilt. Now I've lost it a fair bit anyway. I have stopped going to bars and hanging out with my friends who drink all the time in the last few weeks, and knowing I'm probably doing BK has made me curb my spending to cash only. I just tell myself I can't have a trustee seeing me buying a bunch of booze on bank statements. I'm trying to use it as another reason to be motivated about moving on with life.

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it very much.

[Priceless ProSe]

The surgery was for a D&E. There was no fetus or fetal tissue present at the first ultrasound, and that is when she told me I had to have it. She said my uterus and betas were indicative of a 9 week pregnancy, but due to my hormone issue history I keep an accurate calendar of when we do and if there is even a remote chance we weren't careful enough (broken cd, etc). According to my calendar there was only once in that whole six months where we didn't use 2 forms of BC, and that was six weeks prior on vacation. I told her as much and she pretty much ignored it. So they did a beta test and I dropped by 2000 and she said she was sure it was a mc. I insisted on having a second ultrasound the morning before D&E and there was a small white dot right in the middle. I went nuts crying because I wanted to wait, but she kept insisting that it was 'nothing' and my beta levels dropping meant it was a blighted ovum. I was pretty hysterical and kept asking what the dot was and she just said 'nothing, nothing'. I asked to please let me wait until the end of the week when my insurance kicked in, and she said not to worry about it because the hospital had a program if I didn't get state aid. She then (now imagine how upset I was) gave me a slip with what would have been my due date to take to the welfare office. She said to apply for medical assistance and not to mention the mc, because they approved almost everyone who was pregnant. I was so upset and I didn't want to do welfare fraud (I actually know a girl who got in HUGE trouble for it), so I just went home and cried until it was time to go have it done. I still wonder to this day about that dot. When my future SIL got pregnant her first US looked almost the same. I feel so guilty all the time. I thought about getting a lawyer but I don't want to relive it over and over and over for years to come. I don't believe that a doctor would purposely make me have a D&E, and I try to tell myself she had to see something wrong, but then I also think Dr.s are human too and could make a mistake.

I didn't mean to imply that I didn't see myself as an alcoholic, so I wasn't offended. I just know that on the internet people often assume things and I didn't want someone to think I drank myself into a miscarriage, or that I was to the point where I had no regard for the lives of others and got trashed and started driving around. I'm not a blackout drunk, but I am usually 'buzzed' unless I am at work. I mostly sit at home and read or paint or hang out with DF, but I know that still makes me an alcoholic, because without it I get such bad anxiety and all. Part of why it makes me so mad is because my gram, who I adored, was an alcoholic and I never wanted to end up like this. It was just the only thing that felt like it was keeping me from losing it from guilt. Now I've lost it a fair bit anyway. I have stopped going to bars and hanging out with my friends who drink all the time in the last few weeks, and knowing I'm probably doing BK has made me curb my spending to cash only. I just tell myself I can't have a trustee seeing me buying a bunch of booze on bank statements. I'm trying to use it as another reason to be motivated about moving on with life.

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it very much.

From your description it doesnt seem like an emergency, but then again I have no idea how the pregnancy was contributing to your other conditions (HELLP, gest DM, just guessing?). It could have been that the pregnancy was contributing to some type of hormonal issue, and therefore when the pregnancy was deemed not viable she anted to resolve this ASAP so it would not affect your health. ALso, she might have been taking into consideration your emotional state at the time. In the end though she sounds a little old school, as in thinking she knows whats best for her patients and by god thats whats gonna happen.

In regards quitting, just remember the BK will pass someday and you will no longer have the fear of the trustee looking at recipts to help you. I guess what I am trying to say is that when you quit something successfully it has to be for your own wellbeing, and it has to be "your thing", not someone elses (confusing right?).
Not to say that these two things are similar, but I have quit smoking in the past week (and drinking as the two go hand in hand for me) and the withdrawls are pretty strong. I am coping by telling myself it is the pain of getting better (kinda like the "burn" of exercise) and in that way I swear it feels almost pleasurable when the pains come. I smile to be honest, because it signifies my body is changing.

Have you ever quit cold turkey before? If so how long were you able to abstain? How was the withdrawl for you? Lastly, how did you feel about yourself then vs. now? (sorry, if you dont want to answer feel free to ignore me, my wife does )

[mixingbole]

Haha, no I'm not ignoring you, that last sentence was cute.

Yeah I've quit both smoking and drinking before. It wasn't too hard, headaches mostly. I get pretty crabby but I also hate to be 'that cranky person', so I just found distractions. I went a good six months, but what happens is I start thinking I am okay to go out again and then it goes from one beer once a week to two beers thrice a night. I've come to realize I am just not meant for it, because I don't stop. I put it off as long as I can, but then its like someone else takes me over. I feel possessed when it happens and afterward I always sort of sit there in the buzzy fog feeling like 'What just happened? How did it get to be so bad like this?'

I thought about AA but I am horrible, horrible shy, and I've heard through the grapevine my local groups are all very cliquey. I am hoping insurance will cover the one-on-one because I have trouble opening up face-to-face in groups, but I do okay in single conversations. If there was an online rehab I'd be good to go, I pretty much live online when I am not with close friends or DF.

[Priceless ProSe]

I totally agree that the , "just once a _____" doesnt work. If we were able to limit ourselves we wouldnt have this problem to begin with. I have to admit posting this is making me want a cigg!

Being cranky is the pitts, especially when ur loved ones are all around. But I just think how much good I am doing for them vs the inconvenience of having to put up with "cranky daddy" for a few weeks.

The reason I asked about the withdrawls is because alchohol withdrawls can actually get very serious, but you have some experience with how your body reacts.

Lastly, if the meetings made you uncomfortable but helped you to accomplish ur goal would you do it? Not suggesting, just asking.

[mixingbole]

Thats a good question. I'd like to say yes, but then again I can't because if I was as uncomfortable as I usually am in a strange group, I can't imagine it helping.

Yeah I know about the alcohol withdrawl, it frightens me, but I did okay last time. I don't have decades under my belt. I'll feel pretty nasty, but it passes.

[ThreadsSnapping]

I thought about AA but I am horrible, horrible shy, and I've heard through the grapevine my local groups are all very cliquey. I am hoping insurance will cover the one-on-one because I have trouble opening up face-to-face in groups, but I do okay in single conversations. If there was an online rehab I'd be good to go, I pretty much live online when I am not with close friends or DF.

Is there a way you can call your local AA meeting and see if there is anyone you can talk to individually? MAybe if you meet a few of the people first it won't be so bad at the meetings if you have a few friends?

I am also shy and hate going into a room of stangers but if I know at least 2-3 people I am ok.

Just my thoughts.

TS

[Priceless ProSe]

Dont be scared about the withdrawl, I obviously can promise that nothing bad will happen, but I promise nothing bad will happen! Seriously youll be alright, hopefully the thought of withdrawl will help keep us on track once were out of the thick.

The only real adverse reactions I have seen (siezures, hallucinations, etc.) are in the stereotypical "old wino". My dad quit drinkning after like.....well since the vietnam war hes been drinking, I though for sure he would have something going on but he was fine (as can be expected that is, read: chirrosis).

Anyways I sound like im harping now, and ive totally hijacked your thread! sorry

Would anyone else care to take a crack at the original five questions the OP posed?

[FreshLikeADaisy]

One lawyer I talked to said that for it to work as a chapter 7 I'd have to have my fiance fake moving out and pretend to be renting to me. That sent up red flags with both myself and the fiance because I don't want to do anything fraudulent.

Dude needs to lay off the Icehouse. This is pure fiction. And yes, you are absolutely right to question ANY advice that requires "faking" anything. I'm glad you didn't accept this at face value.

I spoke with another lawyer who said they shouldn't question it if we aren't married and I am not fully supporting him.

This is what the first atty should have told you.

Basically, if you are living with your fiance you have two options: you can file as a two person household and include his income in its entirety; OR you can file as a one person household and include only that portion of his income which is contributed to household expenses (iow, that portion of his income from which you directly benefit). You will most likely end up filing as a one person household.

Please note that this a common scenario: think of all the gay couples, or people living with unrelated roommates, or grown children living with parents (my situation).

He still isn't sure if I'll meet criteria for a 7, even though I am below the median for my state (PA).

I would be interested in knowing his specific reservations. If you are under the median for your area, have no salable assets, and have no disposable income at the end of the month, yes, you DO qualify for a Ch7.

Is it possible he is trying to steer you gently into a 13? I don't want to speak ill of him, I don't know him, but do keep in mind that Ch13 bks are far more lucrative on average for an atty, and you would not be the first client to have fully qualified for a Ch7 but found herself steered into a 13 for the benefit of the atty. Again, I am not saying this is the case, but... caveat emptor.

1 - Is my fiance's income going to count toward my HHI? If yes, how does this work when we have no legal obligation to each other?

See above.

2 - If I get married next April (plan to file in Sept) will they come and reopen my case?

Nope. Once you're done in a straightforward no-asset Ch7, you're done. With the exception of inheritances, divorce settlements, and death-related insurance payouts -- of which you must notify the trustee if you receive any within 6 months of the day you filed, even if your case is already closed -- once you're closed, you're closed.

3 - Will my medical expenses, which I can't afford right now, be able to be calculated into my exemptions? When I stop paying before filing, I will have money freed up to get the medication/pump I need to maintain my blood sugar & related issues.

Absolutely they will be included!!!

4 - Will the trustee object to med exemptions related to depression/alcohol counseling? I'm not a raging alcoholic, but after my last mc I started drinking pretty heavily, and I admit that I have a problem. I am overwhelmed from the moment I wake up and I get myself sick thinking about things until I have a drink or two to keep me mellow. I still function, but I don't want to live my life like this, and someday I want to have a healthy happy child, so I've got to take care of myself mentally and physically first. Every day I hate myself for letting it get out of hand, but I've looked into a variety of treatment options and am waiting for my insurance to tell me how much they would cover.

You're not going to get into that with the trustee, so there's nothing for him to object to. If asked, use the phrase "health problems". If asked further, offer up the non-alcohol-related problems as briefly as possible. There is no need for the trustee to know the specifics of all your health-related expenses, and chances are very good that once you say "medical expenses" you will not be asked for this sort of detail.

Look at it this way: if you were a trustee, holding over fifty 341 hearings in an average day, would you REALLY want the details of my "health problems"? For all you know, I had a surgical booger removal that I'm just DYING to tell you about.

The trustee really wants to know just the basics, so that it jibes with all the rest of the info given, but not detail like that unless he thinks you're lying. So don't lie, but save it for the very last if you're asked for detail.

5 - I am on a contract to a company that is on contract with my employer. That expires in June 09, but everyone knows it is going to be renewed. Will this count as a potential change in income, and should I bring it up? The reason I don't want to do a 13 is because even at $100 a month, if my contract ends (it goes up for renewal each year) and I have to take minimum wage for awhile, I won't be able to afford my car + expenses. I know I could change to a 7 then, but I also worry about a 13, because then how will I explain being able to afford to get married/his income getting factored in, etc. etc.

If I remember correctly, Schedule I (the form where you list your current sources of income) uses the verbage "reasonably anticipate" in asking about changes of income expected in the following year. Since you "reasonably anticipate" keeping your job, it's up to you as to whether or not to list it. You could decide to be extremely scrupulous and mention it there, or leave it off since you don't expect to lose it, and be good either way.

To be honest, what the trustee is REALLY looking for is an expected increase but you're right, an expected decrease might cause problems in reaffirming your car loan by creating an expectation that you won't be able to afford the payments. So it's up to you.

And just FYI, getting married does not, by itself, qualify as an increase in income. Your sweetie is not filing; you are. And you're filing on pre-marital income/debts. So the mere fact of getting married may not be the issue you think it will be in the eyes of the court.

Edit: Added note to be sure nobody though my mc was related to drinking.

Eh, so what if they do.

I wish you every success!!!

[deafbroke]

Don't mention anything about getting married to the court. Just say you are renting part of the house from the owner occupant. If you are not married when you file they do not need to know you are engaged. It's not lying. YOU are the one declaring bankruptcy. All you need to be concerned about is how much YOU pay towards the expenses of the house. As far as the bankruptcy is concerned you are single, not almost married. Listen to your attorney.

DB