Free and Clear Property ??????

[OverExtended05]

Well I told my dad tonight that the BK7 would take the property since it is free and clear and put it up on the auction block.

Of course he flipped out on me.

He wants me to put the property back in his name tommorrow. I really don't feel as if I should do it since I am worried they may think that is fradulent and not do the bankruptcy then.

He says that we just need to find a different lawyer and not even tell them that it was in our names.

Also the property is valued at $26000, free and clear, the lawyer said we would get the first $16000 and the trustee would not take it since the state of Michigan exempts it.

Would the property really sell for over $16000, may dad says it will sell for only $6000....

Any advice?

Thanks in Advance!!!

[originalhealer]

Get a second opinion (from a different lawyer).

[hhou812hh]

Regarding this statement:
"He says that we just need to find a different lawyer and not even tell them that it was in our names."

If you are thinking of not telling the courts/trustee the truth that would be purjury. Not only would you lose your discharge, but face possible jail time.

You should tell your lawyer EVERYTHING! They can advise you on what you need to do. A 2nd opinion wouldn't hurt.

My advice would be to get the property appraised. Bk trustees would probably allow your father or another relative or friend buy any non-exempt assets for garage sale prices. It's a lot of work to sell everthing at an auction, so I'm sure they will listen to any offer you make.

[Minnymouth]

????
From you previous posting I understood that this peice of property is not your residence, but another peice of property that you own "free and clear" that your dad gave you??

I'm not familar with Michigan laws, but I don't believe you can keep the funds from the sale of property that is "not your residence." This property would not be exempt, at least I wouldn't think so.

Does your lawyer think this peice of property is your residence???

You best be straight and upfront with your lawyer about your case. Its in your best interest!! FRAUD can get your case "throwed out", penalties and fines, and possible jail time......

I understood that you own this peice of property, but live somewhere else!!! Is this correct??

Also, before and during the BK process, YOU BEST NOT BE TRANSFERING ANYTHING! No title exchanges, deed changes, etc. It constituets "fraud"!!

The Trustee will check back at least 6 months or more to see if you have sold or transferred any assets before filing for BK.

Since your dad is soooo mad, is it possible for you to wait 6 months to a year or longer to claim BK. Put the land back in his name, and file BK in the future.

If you do file now, your dad can offer to purchase the land back at FMV or below, it just has to be approved by the court. It doesn't have to be forced to auction.....as long as there is a buyer and its approved.

Have you already filed?? You did not say whether you were under Chapter 7 or Chapter 13??

Keep us posted,

Minny

[HHM]

First and foremost, get the property appraised. If it appraises low, there may be some other exemption (like a wild card) that you can use.

Assuming the property is not exempt and you are on the title, any transfer to someone else (especially an insider like your father), would be problematic, unless your dad paid you a fair market value for the land.

I certainly cannot advise you to not mention it on your BK, your duty is to disclose all assets and liabilities, and the petition does ask you if you transfered any property within 12 months of filing, if you do not disclose the property, you risk having your case dismissed, or denial of discharge (denial of discharge is different than dimissal, and much worse, if you are denied a discharge, that means all debts listed in your BK can NEVER be discharged), and finally, civil and criminal prosecution for BK fraud. However, the bankruptcy trustee's don't independently investigate a persons assets, but because real property records are readily avialable, you run a serious risk if you do not disclose.

[Minnymouth]

HHM
Wish I had some of that "knowledge" you have stored away....would have saved me a lot of grief this past year!!!
I'm glad you could offer her other options also -(I had forgotten about the "wildcard"), and stressed the importance of disclosing "everything"....
Many are not aware of the "concequences" of not disclosing properly.

I know "I SURE DO THANK YOU" for all the help you have given me the last year.

HATS OFF TO YOU AND TODD - YOUR MY KINDA "GUYS"?? OR GIRLS" LOL

Minny

[OverExtended05]

Thank you all!

I have just told my dad that the property is going to go into the bankruptcy and we will just have to see how it all pans out when the time gets here. I am not going to try and do anything shady since I don't want anything messing up my chance at starting over.

The property is a vacant parcel, not my residence. It's totally useless to me anyhow now and I really could not care if I keep it or not. It's mine and this is just what has to be done.

I guess I will just have to face the wrath of my family for a little bit. I am sure eventually he will either get over it or die with it.

Thanks again!

[HHM]

If your dad want's it back, he can always buy it from the Trustee. Also, you can do a redemption whereby you essentially buy it back from the trustee.

[Minnymouth]

That's right!!!

And tell you dad - the best part - is he can buy it back "real cheap" from the Trustee.......usually below FMV....

The trustee would rather sell it to your dad "cheap" than to go to auction and be out the expense and still not get much out of it....

So talk to dad - explain this too him.....maybe he'll calm down and cool off.....

That's how I'm getting my home and land back.......buying back from Trustee/bank - very cheap..... course its' "cash" for me (but your dad could finance).....

Just a thought,

Minny

[EdytaHome]

Michigan doesn't have a wild card, but you can get up to almost $20,000 in wild card exemptions when filing federal (if not married, $10,000). This wild card is for people that do not have real property and wish to exempt other personal property in their BK. I filed in Michigan and wrote off cars, money in the bank and other personal property with the federal wild card. I gave up two houses.
Good luck.

[HHM]

You should talk to an attorney about using federal exemptions. If your state has "opted" out of the federal exemptions, then you cannot use them.