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    #16
    I agree in part, but from everything I have read it says the debtor can choose to reject or assume the contract, but as you have said the final decision lies with the trustee and he/she makes thier decision based on whether or not it would make business sense to reject the contract (or if accepting it would lead to some kind of money for the creditors).



    Albiet most of the case law I have been studying is related to large corporations. If the contract is determined to be executory and rejected it is considered terminated the day before filing and any financial obligations resulting from the termination of the contract become unsecured debt (to simplify things) and are treated as any other unsecured debt.



    I am also not convinced that this contract would be considered executory (in fact im pretty sure its not), i cannot find specific case law in which the debtor was the employee in a service contract.



    I have no doubt an (any) attorney could easily handle me in court, they could probably convince the judge that I am not even who I say I am and I would be unable to stop them . I signed the contract almost two years ago and I cannot fullfill the contract for at least another year because the position requires me to finish school first. It is an "at will employment contract" and many people that have signed with this agency have changed thier major during the course of school, it happens. For this to be construed as fraud seems like a stretch to me, but I will take your advice and read up on it. I know that all of the other people that have terminated the contract with this agency before graduating have just had to pay the money back, no charges brought in court. Lets just say it "seemed like a good idea at the time" because i felt certain i wanted to be in this field. Actually the agency itself is the one that has been pushing to get the contract terminated (but they want me to initiate it obviously) they have sent me several emails since i moved back home (an hour away) saying, "we need to talk about your contract and your future with xxxx, it may not be reasonable now that you live in xxxx".

    Most likely when the trustee asks me i will voice that i wish to reject the contract, but i understand that the monies paid to me are not dischargable in BK. If he asks why i wish to reject I will tell him the whole truth (moved, bad relationship with future employer, changing field upon graduation in the form of going to grad school). Or possibly I dont need to tell him anyhting at all, just the fact that I wont be fullfilling the contract and why.

    But i will drop this argument because 1) you are defenitley more knowledgable about the subject and it would be smart for me to listen, 2) I have perhaps left out too many little pieces of information from the situation as a whole (such as the ones above), 3) It doesnt help me to argue with the guy that posts the most (and best) answers on this forum (im sure ill have more questions before this process is done).
    Last edited by Priceless ProSe; 07-13-2008, 09:58 AM.
    Not only am I not a lawyer, the California BAR association has sent me numerous letters telling me not to even THINK about going to law school. In fact, the lay advice I provide is not even good. In the end remember, you get what you pay for, and here in BK land were not the best at paying.

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      #17
      Don't take my word for it

      But if you really want to try to discharge this debt, you should really hire an attorney to handle it. This area of BK is fairly complex (even for attorneys) so trying to do it pro se is not advisable.

      If the company is making overtures about cancelling the contract, I would try to make a deal with them. Take the position that you "really want" to work for them, but if they are not going to honor their obligation, then you shouldn't have to pay back the money, or at least not all of it.

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        #18
        I really wish i could get an attorney. I am so busy with school, I have a wife and 3 year old, and I have to drive 100 miles to school every monday and sleep in my car until friday when class is over before I come back home. I do not have the time to handle this on my own. I filed because I felt like if I didnt things were about to get really bad for us, like 50 different companies seeking judgement (this wasnt actually happening mind you). I will be happy when this is all over. The thing I dont want to do is use all this as an excuse not to do a good job on the BK, and then regret it five years from now, "man i cost myself 30k by being lazy". I guess we all have our sad stories tho, someday a few years from now this will all be like a dream and my family and I will be financially stable (maybe even well off). The one thing I can tell you for sure is I am done borrowing money for anything that depreciates (anything but real estate and education).

        I might contact them to make a deal, the woman in charge over there is a real tiger, and she has told me she doesnt like me (not in so many words). I bet she would pay a lawyer 35k to make sure I didnt get out of this debt. They have millions of dollars in contracts with current students and this would not set a good precedent for them. Not to mention the contract states that either party can terminate for any reason, and the end result is I pay back the money. My best bet might be to roll over.

        Oh i edited my post above with some stuff i found on the us attorneys website.
        Last edited by Priceless ProSe; 07-13-2008, 10:18 AM.
        Not only am I not a lawyer, the California BAR association has sent me numerous letters telling me not to even THINK about going to law school. In fact, the lay advice I provide is not even good. In the end remember, you get what you pay for, and here in BK land were not the best at paying.

        Comment


          #19
          How long would you have to work for this agency? It seems to me that I would rather spend a year or two doing something I don't like and get paid and NOT owe $30k. I would not want to file a bk and still owe $30k. The jobless rate is terrible and many would jump at the chance to have stable employment. Bk is supposed to give you a fresh start and this would help.
          Now, if I had to work doing something I absolutely hated for years and year, then the $30k might be worth it to pay back.
          Just my opinion of course. Good luck with everything and please keep us updated as I am sure this topic could come up again and would be helpful for someone in the future.

          Comment


            #20
            I would have to work for them for at least two years, possibly three. But the catch 22 is that in light of my relationship with them and the fact that I have filed BK there is a 95 % chance they will terminate the contract anyways, regardless of whether or not I wanted to fullfill it. I found that I do not like this field of work, at all, so two years of full time work in a place that does not want me, doing work I am adverse to isnt an option I really want to consider. Keep in mind also that the commute for me would be almost 200 miles a day round trip, or I would have to relocate to this more expensive (much more) area after graduation. I would much rather take my lumps now and have a doctorate or similar in a few years time doing something that I have found I enjoy. The jobless rate for the field I am educated in, and the one that I will be educated in when I get my grad degree is negligable (spelling). Lastly, I am getting older (relatively speaking- school years) and I dont know if I would still have it in me to go back to school three years from now.

            I do think your post brings up another good issue, that of choosing not to work. I have read that simply choosing to be unemployed and filing BK is a filing in bad faith and can get ur case dismissed. That is not what I am doing, but i can see how the UST might construe it as such. If the UST uses this I would adamantly disagree with the logic. Any abled bodied man or woman could work on an oil rig, an alaskan fishery vessel, or other similarly well paying job that requires no education, but if you dont want to should you have to? If the answer is yes then any able bodied man or woman should be dismissed or converted to a 13 because they are choosing not to go make more money. Now I understand my case is different because I went to school to work in this field, but I do not think I should be forced to do a job for the sake of repaying my debt. I have never been employed in this field so its not like I took a job and then quit. I know this is not what you were implying with ur post, but I have been thinking of this and I hope it doesnt arise in court (I dont do submissive well).

            Thank you for your reply!
            Not only am I not a lawyer, the California BAR association has sent me numerous letters telling me not to even THINK about going to law school. In fact, the lay advice I provide is not even good. In the end remember, you get what you pay for, and here in BK land were not the best at paying.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Priceless ProSe View Post
              I really wish i could get an attorney. I am so busy with school, I have a wife and 3 year old, and I have to drive 100 miles to school every monday and sleep in my car until friday when class is over before I come back home.
              Can you have your wife call a couple of attorneys for you? Make an outline on paper of the whole contract & circumstance while you are away & have her call for you? or take the phone book with you & use a cell? You dont have to actually drive to one because they will talk to people on the phone too... most of them do. There are some nice & discreet attorneys out there.

              In the very least it would offer some direction to consider & get more angles on all the possibilites.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by HHM View Post
                The facts that hurt you are (1) the work agreement specifically stipulates that the money is an education benefit/stipened, and YOU signed it, (2) the money was given to you while you were in school.
                Other questions I would have: (a) have you actually begun working for this agency, (b) did you begin working for them whhile in school. If you haven't actually began working for them, you face a possible fraud hurdle, i.e. you took the money, never provided any service and are now trying to discharge the debt (that isn't going to play well in front of the BK judge).
                Yah. I would think the chances would be way better if the person was working for them at the same time they were going to school, even if just as a water boy. They could easily see that as someone taking advantage of & getting free college, even if the intent to do that was never there.

                Then if they wanted to quit after they worked for them a little while showing some good faith & quit after the BK. That is what I think I would do to give some time in between showing good faith no matter how much I hated the job...we all have a job at some point we hate & have to do it for awhile.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Bandit View Post
                  Can you have your wife call a couple of attorneys for you? Make an outline on paper of the whole contract & circumstance while you are away & have her call for you? or take the phone book with you & use a cell? You dont have to actually drive to one because they will talk to people on the phone too... most of them do. There are some nice & discreet attorneys out there.

                  In the very least it would offer some direction to consider & get more angles on all the possibilites.
                  Its actually a matter of not having any money
                  Not only am I not a lawyer, the California BAR association has sent me numerous letters telling me not to even THINK about going to law school. In fact, the lay advice I provide is not even good. In the end remember, you get what you pay for, and here in BK land were not the best at paying.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Priceless ProSe View Post
                    Its actually a matter of not having any money
                    I know, but you can still talk to them/many different ones over a period of time. You dont have to pay or reveal that you want to file or even who you are, but at some point it really is worth it to talk to them & get a feel for what different ones say.

                    I know money is tight & even impossible, but they wont charge you over the phone.
                    You sound a lot like me because I waited for a long time before calling anyone & just kept doing my thing while studying the law on my own. then I kind of made a list of questions & eventually forced myself & over time telephoned every attorney in the city just as project & it was like free entertainment because so many of them were morons.

                    This will give you a much clearer picture of all your legal options & it will also help so you dont make any real bad mistakes along the way.

                    I am just sharing how it has been for me, not saying you have to do it the same way. I know you have a very tough situation facing you.

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