Pro Se and Legal Review

[kdcforlife]

I am sorry if this has already been answered. I look and was not able to locate an answer. Has anyone ever filed pro se and had a lawyer review it first? I have already paid my lawyer a partial payment, but I was wondering if I could do that, if it would be wise? The lawyer hasn't started working on my case as of yet, if that makes a difference? Thank you for any insight...

[lrprn]

In essence you are asking the lawyer to give you a cut rate for the same work he/she would do if you paid their fee in full. There's no legal 'rule' saying you can't ask the lawyer for a review paying for his/her time by the hour rather than paying the fee in full for all their bk services.

However, the good BK lawyers have WAY more business than they need right now. And who wants to pay a less competent bk lawyer who might have the available time now to review your filing?? Food for thought...

[kdcforlife]

Point taken. I read somewhere that you could get a hire a paralegal? I am just seeing where I can save some money, since something just came up. I am going to have to push it back. Thanks.

In essence you are asking the lawyer to give you a cut rate for the same work he/she would do if you paid their fee in full. There's no legal 'rule' saying you can't ask the lawyer for a review paying for his/her time by the hour rather than paying the fee in full for all their bk services.

However, the good BK lawyers have WAY more business than they need right now. And who wants to pay a less competent bk lawyer who might have the available time now to review your filing?? Food for thought...

[HHM]

Any lawyer that would agree to do so is a lawyer you would not want to review the docs. No lawyer is going to accept the liability for reviewing your documents unless they fully represent you in the case.

[AngelinaCatHub]

KD, all above are right. If you are pro se, why ask a lawyer? It doesn't even look good when in Court. Get the book from Nolo.com Chapter 7, and READ. It sure is cheaper. Come HERE and get good advice but none legal. If you go pro se, you will be extended (in my opinion) a bit of tolorance. After all, you are bankrupt. 'Hub

[kdcforlife]

Any lawyer that would agree to do so is a lawyer you would not want to review the docs. No lawyer is going to accept the liability for reviewing your documents unless they fully represent you in the case.

I guess this isn't something I want to be cutting corners with!

[kdcforlife]

KD, all above are right. If you are pro se, why ask a lawyer? It doesn't even look good when in Court. Get the book from Nolo.com Chapter 7, and READ. It sure is cheaper. Come HERE and get good advice but none legal. If you go pro se, you will be extended (in my opinion) a bit of tolorance. After all, you are bankrupt. 'Hub

That is what I was thinking...a little bit of tolerance. I just looked over a lot of the forms earlier, and it was just overwhelming. 2K is worth it for the svc. Thank you for your reply.

[monlyba]

I'm gonna go for it pro se (my case is relatively simple and I've been reading my tail off here and elsewhere online, and the Nolo book is super-helpful) but was also concerned about mistakes in the paperwork being missed even though I know I'll proof-read a thousand times before filing... I emailed a paralegal who'd advertised her services as a legal document preparer or something like that, or maybe she'd just mentioned working in a BK office... anyway, I asked if I prepared the documents myself could she look over them, not to give advice or tell me something isn't valid legally, but moreso to make sure I filled it out the way the courts prefer, didn't miss any blanks, have things in the proper order and format, etc... figured if she does that for a BK office regularly it would be a breeze since surely they check over their own stuff before it's filed. anyway, she was very nice but replied she did a bit of research cause she wasn't sure if she could do something like that and said that in our state (NC) she is in fact NOT allowed to do anything like that. Hrmph! oh well, I'll just have to be extra careful. I'd totally try to wait and save $2k to hire an attorney... but I've been saying that for nearly 5 yrs and after all the research I've done, I really should just do it myself.

[kdcforlife]

Good luck. I wanted to file pro se, but honestly, I don't have enough confidence to tackle that. If I had someone to triple check my documents, maybe, which is why I was wondering about having a lawyer by an hourly rate. Mine should be simple enough, no assets, my car isn't in my name, just debt. My income is well within the 7 filing range and my debt is around 25K. I am going to have to give this more thought.

I'm gonna go for it pro se (my case is relatively simple and I've been reading my tail off here and elsewhere online, and the Nolo book is super-helpful) but was also concerned about mistakes in the paperwork being missed even though I know I'll proof-read a thousand times before filing... I emailed a paralegal who'd advertised her services as a legal document preparer or something like that, or maybe she'd just mentioned working in a BK office... anyway, I asked if I prepared the documents myself could she look over them, not to give advice or tell me something isn't valid legally, but moreso to make sure I filled it out the way the courts prefer, didn't miss any blanks, have things in the proper order and format, etc... figured if she does that for a BK office regularly it would be a breeze since surely they check over their own stuff before it's filed. anyway, she was very nice but replied she did a bit of research cause she wasn't sure if she could do something like that and said that in our state (NC) she is in fact NOT allowed to do anything like that. Hrmph! oh well, I'll just have to be extra careful. I'd totally try to wait and save $2k to hire an attorney... but I've been saying that for nearly 5 yrs and after all the research I've done, I really should just do it myself.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Monlyba, it's true, paralegals are not allowed to provide anything that resembles legal advice (which is what "looking over your paperwork" would be, because she would not know what numbers were right or wrong without questioning you and applying legal analysis to your responses). In addition, the tone of the questionnaire I received from the trustee as a pro se filer regarding any help I received from paralegals or BPPs tells me that the U.S. Trustee Program is planning to crack down on "paraprofessional" (i.e. non-attorney provided) bankruptcy preparation services.

I was a pro se filer who prepared VERY carefully and was successful. I prepared all the forms myself (it took MANY drafts before I was satisfied) but in retrospect, with all I have learned, I would do it exactly the same way again. All the Ch7 cases I saw that received deficiency notices (that's when the court mails you a notice saying your forms weren't right, in part or in total, and you have 15 days to correct or have your case dismissed) were prepared by paralegals. Every single one. Nothing against paralegals, but if I had not done my own research anyway, there would be no way for me to know the good from the bad. And once you've done that level of research, you're actually well prepared to do a simple, straightforward no-asset Ch7 yourself anyway.

Moral of this story? Hire an atty, or go pro se. Anything in between is not likely to serve your best interests. Good luck!!!

[newstart4me]

Very useful thread w/ great info!

The way I am, I will have to research this issue completely no matter what. I just can't do it any other way. I am planning on this being my one and only bk that I learn from. I still don't know which way I will go for a while. I will proceed in both directions because I don't have the $ to hire a lawyer at this time anyway. I will consult with one or more lawyers ASAP as part of my education process. Thank you fellow members!