Bad Appraisal

[keepmine]

The first apprasial will have no bearing unless, you end up with a fullblown 2004 exam and that question is asked. If the appraiser whose work you use is properlyqualified, I don't see the question being raised.
If it does come up, the worse case would be the trustee ordering a 3rd apprasial to break the tie.

Just a quick question-did your lawyer specifically instruct you to use a professional appraiser or, would just a routine marketing analyis by a realtor suffice?

[slappy]

The first apprasial will have no bearing unless, you end up with a fullblown 2004 exam and that question is asked. If the appraiser whose work you use is properlyqualified, I don't see the question being raised.
If it does come up, the worse case would be the trustee ordering a 3rd apprasial to break the tie.

Just a quick question-did your lawyer specifically instruct you to use a professional appraiser or, would just a routine marketing analyis by a realtor suffice?

Keepmine, thanks for the response. Yes, my attorney told me I had to get an a appraisal. I asked if he had anyone he could recommend and and he gave me this guys business card and told me he gives very fair/solid appraisals. When I opend the packet and saw the price, I was floored to say the least. Then when I saw that he didn't compare my property to any in my development, I started to wonder if something shady wasn't going on. Like I've said above, none of the houses(many bigger than mine) are selling for over 200,000 and he appaised mine at 215,000. The other thing is, I'm pretty sure the appraiser is suppose to take into account damages and repairs. I've had water in my basement several times. This guy didn't ask about anything and didn't note anything in the appraisal. I'm going to file a complaint with the local realtors association most likely, because he did a piss poor job.

[Flamingo]

There are a bunch of ranchers in my development, mine is not the only one. Again, a style of house, whether it be a colonial, bi-level, two story or rancher does not raise the value 20% over the other houses in the development. There have been at least 5 houses sold in my development since last September ranging from 156,000--200,000. Three of those have 4 bedrooms and 2.5 baths. Mine is only 3 bedrooms/2 baths. I've already spoken with a friend who just put his realtor's license in escrow because the market is so bad and he said, without a doubt the guy did not do a proper job. I have no choice but to speak with my attorney and see what he says and I'll probably have to get a second appraisal. The only question I have is, does the first appraisal have any effect on my bankruptcy is I get a second one done and it's lower?

If you feel the appraiser did not do a good job, complain and state your reasons why, especially after talking to your friend. Advise your attorney ofd the issues and if there were problems in your first appraisal, there may be a way around not paying for it if blatant errors are really there. I totally see your issues and point; you just need to find a way around the first appraisal.

[morallyBR2]

Let your lawyer know, I'm sure he can take care of it.

[slappy]

So what does the appraiser have to gain by over stating the value of your property? Second as long as the damages are repaired its of no concern to the appraiser what occurred unless its a reoccurring problems and if it is a reoccurring problem did YOU point out to him that your basement floods or do you expect him to be a mind reader? You have an obligation to at least let the appraiser know of potential devaluations that you are aware of. I mean why would you think he is aware of a flooding problem unless you disclose this to him? How would the appraiser know your basement floods unless he is there on the day it is flooding? Then the appraisal of the property is only reduced by the cost to cure and YOU need to go get estimates from contractors to fix the problem. Lastly, a CLUE report would reveal any insurance loss claims for flooding or damage thats why appraisers don't take that into account when the repairs have been made.

Not trying to get into an argument here, cause clearly you know more than anyone else. Just to reiterate on you previous post, I never said a colonial cost more to build compared to a rancher, I said when my house was built, a colonial cost more. That simply means the builder was charging more to build it, not that it costs the builder more. A two story was more expensive as well, mine(a rancher) was in the middle and below mine was another two story and finally a bi-level. I wasn't at home when the appraiser came, because he could not do it after 4pm. Also, I never said I had to file an insurance claim for damages, I simply stated that I've had water in the basement several times. And yes, other appraisals I've had in the past specifically asked, "have you ever had water in your basement." Damn man, get a grip. You're the one who was bringing up trivial things and trying to tell me what prices are in my area. I've checked, I know; you don't, unless you live where I do. I simply wanted to find out how, if at all, this bad appraisal will affect me if I get another. That's been answered by several decent/nice posters. Take your attitude some place else, I don't need and I won't tolerate it. For those who took time to actually answer what I asked, thank you!

[Flamingo]

In my daughter's new development (only about 3 years old), she has a two story house at the end of a cul-de-sac. There are two homes for sale on that cul-de-sac; the home next to her which is two story, big lot, two car garage, 4 bedrooms. The other home is a ranch on the corner having a large corner lot, 3 bedrooms with a FROG (family room over the garage) which can be used for another bedroom. Both are similar in size and amenities. I've been in both. The two story next door to my daughter is going for $249,000. The ranch on the corner is going for $289,000. My daughter was floored when she learned the differences in price between the two story and the rancher. Of course we don't have the appraisals to view to compare anything but there is nothing extraordinary about the ranch, just that it is on a corner lot, is a ranch with a FROG. Neither house has a basement. There are probably a lot of factors involved as to each appraisal and also a lot upon the appraiser themselves. An appraiser that is somewhat new may not appraise a house high enough or one in the business a long time knows the market and may appraise more realistically.

Best of luck in handling your situation and I hope all works out to your benefit!

[slappy]

Well lets just get this right if were going to be finger pointing.... OK? On post #15 you said "There are not a "limited" number of ranchers for sale and in my development(again I don't know where you live) a colonial style house was actually the most expensive to build, not a ranch. As a matter of fact, my house was in the middle of the 5 models available as far as cost to build."

You said cost to build twice in that paragraph. I told you generally that was not true, but yet you come back and tell me I don't know prices in your area. Selling prices, listing prices, sold prices and BUILDING costs are all different things. Now you want to come back and tell me you never said it cost more to BUILD a ranch. I am just going off your own statement.

I think you are confused about listing prices vs. selling prices. That is what I tried to convey to you before you got rude about what I was saying about BUILDING costs. You need to correct the terminology you use and use the correct terms such as: listing price, sales price and AV. All three numbers mean significantly different things.

But you are still missing one major point and you say it again "I said when my house was built, a colonial cost more. That simply means the builder was charging more to build it, not that it costs the builder more. A two story was more expensive as well, mine(a rancher) was in the middle and below mine was another two story and finally a bi-level." Like I said the COST to build a single story house is more than any other house style. It COSTS more per square foot to build. Now does that mean it will sell for more than a larger house not always."

But when you compare houses split level and two story homes sell for less per sgft than a single story house.

You can not run around the block looking at houses that are for sale right now and use those as comparisons for an appraisal. Your attorney should have had you get a written BPO (broker price opinion) for three local brokers (about $150 each). That would have been a fair market analysis of the homes current market value.

I'm not trying to be rude, or ignorant. If it came off that way, then I apologize. I'm extremely frustrated. In comparing houses that have already sold in my development and two of the comparables(apples to apples such as colonials to colonials....), the other two development's houses sell on average for 25-30% more than comparable sales in my development. This was not taken into account on the appraisal and it is my main complaint. I just got off the phone with the appraiser and I don't think he realized there was that big of difference between the neighborhoods, which seems a little strange to me, I would have thought he would have known that. He's going to adjust it down to 198,000, which still isn't low enough, however it's a better number to go with a second appraisal if it's ever questioned. I guess my only question left is, the appraiser claimed that the price is not suppose to be for a "wholesale or quick sale" value. He said it's just suppose to be a regular appraisal. From reading other posts on here, I thought this was suppose to be a quick sale/wholesale price. Can anyone give any insight into this? Thanks

[jerzey]

By Law they can use any home(s) as comps with in a 1 mile radius and up to 2 miles with an explanation

[keepmine]

He said it's just suppose to be a regular appraisal. From reading other posts on here, I thought this was suppose to be a quick sale/wholesale price. Can anyone give any insight into this? Thanks


You ask for this if, your bk trustee will accept a price from a real estate agent. A fullblown apprasial is another story.

[slappy]

He said it's just suppose to be a regular appraisal. From reading other posts on here, I thought this was suppose to be a quick sale/wholesale price. Can anyone give any insight into this? Thanks


You ask for this if, your bk trustee will accept a price from a real estate agent. A fullblown apprasial is another story.

The comps were 4 miles out. With a fullblown appraisal, will my attorney then discount the appraisal at all to account for a quick sale, or is it not taken into consideration at all? Thanks

[keepmine]

Your ace in the hole could well be the fees that the trustee faces in disposing of the proerty. In many districts, trustees allow a 7 to 10% cushion to account for realators commissions.
Your lawyer will be able to tell you how that's handled in your district.

[southernbelle]

My only suggestion is to collect your own paperwork from houses for sale now and recently sold homes with the same sq ft and similar floorplan. My neighborhood varies in design and price and my house valued right in the middle. I was worried the Trustee would think there was some equity to go after, but I did about 2 weeks worth of research and made copies and printout and everything went fine.

It's a shame you are in this position, but it sounds like your appraiser didn't really care that this was really important and you needed it for your BK filing.

[slappy]

Your ace in the hole could well be the fees that the trustee faces in disposing of the proerty. In many districts, trustees allow a 7 to 10% cushion to account for realators commissions.
Your lawyer will be able to tell you how that's handled in your district.

It's a 10% deduction here, however even with that deduction I still have $16,000 in unexempt equity if I use this appraisal. It looks like I'm going to have to get a second, however I'm still waiting to hear from my attorney to see what he says. Thanks for all the responses, it is appreciated.

[slappy]

My only suggestion is to collect your own paperwork from houses for sale now and recently sold homes with the same sq ft and similar floorplan. My neighborhood varies in design and price and my house valued right in the middle. I was worried the Trustee would think there was some equity to go after, but I did about 2 weeks worth of research and made copies and printout and everything went fine.

It's a shame you are in this position, but it sounds like your appraiser didn't really care that this was really important and you needed it for your BK filing.

Southernbelle, the only problem with this is, none of the houses for sale right now are ranchers and the appraiser says he can't compare other styles to mine, he has to compare ranchers to ranchers. I'm fine with that, however if he's going to compare my rancher to a rancher in a neighborhood where houses have sold on average for 25% more than the same house in my neighborhood, then that should be accounted for. He only accounted for a 10% difference in price from one neighborhood to another when in reality, after looking at prices of houses that have sold in both, the difference is on average 25%. Again, it just looks like I'm going to have to pay for another appraisal and hope it comes in lower. Another question I thought of this morning, is it inappropriate to discuss all this with an appraiser ahead of time, or is it normal. Should I ask the 2nd appraiser if he will take the 25% deduction into account if he has to use one of those houses in the comp, or is this not appropriate. thanks

[ThreadsSnapping]

I would go ahead and tell him what is going on. I wouldn't mention the other appraisal specifically but just say that you have done some research and think the house is worth about $xx. Most appraisers try to get as much value for the house as possible so tell him you need it to come in as low as possible.

TS