Screw up: Debtor Ed Certification filed late

[DebtorDan]

How serious/fatal is it that we filed our debtor ed certifications late? I don't know where I got the idea we had 60 days from the 341 to get them done.
Checking PAcer tonight, I saw that there was a June 2 due date. That wasn't on anything sent to us.

We ended up taking the course on the 2d, the 45th day, and then it took a few days to get the certifications to our attorney and it took him a few days to get them filed (today). That makes them filed 10 days late (55th day).

I saw on Pacer that they were filed and they had the related document link, so I went up and looked at it. In the description of that earlier document it clearly states that the debtor ed is sue by the 2d, and my heart sank.

It doesn't give a due date anywhere on the notice itself, just on the PACER description. There was no action noted on Pacer between the notice of no assets and the filing of the certs. Does that mean we're ok? When will we know? What will happen if we're not?

Our attorney didn't say anything.

[JRScott]

I think you'll be okay, I assume the certificate shows the date you took the course?

[DebtorDan]

Man, I sure hope we're ok. This is where one likes to think the attorney you're paying good money for, his local experience comes into play, and if you were screwed he'd give a heads up, unless he's just sitting there crossing his fingers, too.

Yes, the date is one the certificate. So the course was completed within the 45 day frame, but filed late.

I still can't believe this happened. And I need to go back through our paperwork to see where the time frame is given. I'm not trying to argue with it, just I looked several times to see the deadline, and on everything I see from the court the only deadline is 60 days from the 341. I'm sure its on there somewhere, just odd that they don't put that on the initial case management order. Oh well.

[JollyGG]

Ours didn't get filed until late.

We made it to the 60 days and didn't get discharged right away. I waited about 2 weeks then gave my lawyer a call. He checked into it and discovered that our debtor ed. certificates hadn't been filed (The lawyer thought he'd done it, I thought I'd seen it on PACER where he did it, but evidentally there was a glitch or we were mistaken). We had taken the class the month after our 341. So he got the certificate filed and we had our discharge the next day.

Perhaps different courts handle it differently, but based on our experience I wouldn't anticipate any problems.

[lrprn]

The date you are seeing may be a local preference in your court. The bk law states that the second post-filing debtor education course has to be taken before your case is discharged. It doesn't set a certain time period after filing or after the 341. If you aren't discharged yet, then chances are you should be fine.

[DebtorDan]

Well, it looks like this is another one of those gray areas. From what I can find poking around a bit, you're right, the law makes no mention of any deadline, but the B23 (certification) form does state on the bottom (which you wouldn't see until you've done the course and have you're cert in hand) that in Chapter 7 cases it must be filed within 45 days of the first date set for the meeting of creditors.

This was one of the issues NACBA lobbied against this last year; I don't know the outcome of that though. They were complaining that the official forms should not take substantive positions on the law, and one of the particulars mentioned was that the 45 day deadline for a financial education certificate contravenes the statute.

Looks like its something different districts handle differently. I guess, we'll find out how ours does.

Here's to the best.

[deafbroke]

We were told we had 45 days after 341 meeting to get the debtor education certificates filed. We did it in a couple weeks. I would imagine as long as the certificate show the date you took the course within the due date you are ok.


DB

[DebtorDan]

just a quick update to this thread. we received our discharge today, so everything went fine.

[Cali]

I haven't had my 341 yet, in 3 weeks, and already have the counseling done for the cert. I figured it is better to do it early, that way I don't have to worry about hurrying to get it done later.

ETA: I sent a copy of my cert to my attorney and will take one to the 341 next month.

[Logan]

For those new BK filers. BK is a huge life event and you don't need anymore stress in your life added to your current situation. Get off your A$$ and take your Debtor Education Class now. No excuses!!!!!

PS...I gave mine to my attorney at my 341 hearing. NO EXCUSES

Logan

[DebtorDan]

Yes, I agree; get it done. Procrastination has always been a bit of an issue for me. Where I (almost) got into trouble was thinking we had 60 days instead of 45. Get it done right away so it's not an issue at all.

I always kind of smirked and looked down at people who couldn't get it done timely. And then I almost became one. SOme kind of divine justice at work there.

[JRScott]

Congratulations Dan glad it all worked out