341 Today...over the median ch 7

[laurannm]

Any idea why the UST might object on totality of circumstances?

[dragonnfly]

Our attorney really felt that was grabbing at straws to get us to a 13. Our judge doesn't like the means test. To him if you pass it you pass it. Theres no gray area. Well we passes the second part of the means test. So all there is left for him to object to (since he cant find anything in our figures) is "totallity of circumstances". Which how I understood it is he just doesn't like it. They didn't talk about a certain thing he would cite in the "totallity of circumstance" objection. We do have a large house payment, thats what gets us into a 7. Luckly he didn't say for sure that he would odject. But he did say he would not object to the means test and he'd wait 3 weeks and review it. Im not sure why he would have to wait 3 weeks, that seems strange. Its all there, I dont know why he just couldn't decide now. It would sure save me a lot of stress. Does anyone know, do they have 30 days or 60 days to decide this? Thanks Dragonnfly

[getouttadebt]

Dragonfly,

You're in a bit of a tough spot -- kinda like me. The UST has 2 ways to kick you out of 7 and into 13: make what he thinks are appropriate corrections to your Means Test calucations to make it appear you do not qualify for 7; or file the second shot of totality of the circumstances which is their objection that you do actually have disposable income to pay your creditors a significant amount over 5 years.

In my case, I got flagged on the 10-day Statement of Presumed Abuse, followed by Motion to Dismss or Convert. We opposed the motion (so had to pay more money to attorney) and then the attorney for the UST issued a continuance to the hearing date to study our case in more detail. Well, tomorrow is the continued hearing date and my attorney is meeting with the UST attorney to go over our income and budget in granular detail (Schedule I & J) -- this is the portion a UST can use for totality of the circumstances. The UST's goal is to show sufficient disposable income from the Shedule I & J examination to show cause for a conversion to 13. My attorney told me tonight he is meeting in the morning with the UST attorney to review this information and that he fully believes that the UST attorney will withdraw his Motion to Dismiss -- which would mean a Ch. 7 discharge for me since I am 90 days past the 341 already.

Thus, my point in telling you my story is that Totality of the Circumstances is really the analysis of Schedule I & J -- and the ultimate determination whether or not there remains disposable income to force a Ch. 13 conversion.

And the UST does have the full 60 days from the 341 to object to a discharge. They can even file a 60-day extension on the last day as well...

I feel as though 10 years have been shaved from my lifespan through this process, but I am feeling confident that the end is near.

Good luck to you,
getouttadebt

[2confused]

I would greatly appreciate this...

[laurannm]

Good luck getouttadebt...keep us posted

[dragonnfly]

Dragonfly,

You're in a bit of a tough spot -- kinda like me. The UST has 2 ways to kick you out of 7 and into 13: make what he thinks are appropriate corrections to your Means Test calucations to make it appear you do not qualify for 7; or file the second shot of totality of the circumstances which is their objection that you do actually have disposable income to pay your creditors a significant amount over 5 years.

In my case, I got flagged on the 10-day Statement of Presumed Abuse, followed by Motion to Dismss or Convert. We opposed the motion (so had to pay more money to attorney) and then the attorney for the UST issued a continuance to the hearing date to study our case in more detail. Well, tomorrow is the continued hearing date and my attorney is meeting with the UST attorney to go over our income and budget in granular detail (Schedule I & J) -- this is the portion a UST can use for totality of the circumstances. The UST's goal is to show sufficient disposable income from the Shedule I & J examination to show cause for a conversion to 13. My attorney told me tonight he is meeting in the morning with the UST attorney to review this information and that he fully believes that the UST attorney will withdraw his Motion to Dismiss -- which would mean a Ch. 7 discharge for me since I am 90 days past the 341 already.

Thus, my point in telling you my story is that Totality of the Circumstances is really the analysis of Schedule I & J -- and the ultimate determination whether or not there remains disposable income to force a Ch. 13 conversion.

And the UST does have the full 60 days from the 341 to object to a discharge. They can even file a 60-day extension on the last day as well...

I feel as though 10 years have been shaved from my lifespan through this process, but I am feeling confident that the end is near.

Good luck to you,
getouttadebt

This is the only part Im glad about is that the US trustee did outright say he would not object to the means test. So hopefully Im covered there. He did say he was reserving his opinion on the "totalityof circumstances". He will review our case again in 3 weeks and let us know. I am so tired of waiting. Getoutadebt let us know what happens today. I will be thinking about you. Dragonnfly

[totallyconfused]

Where in Ohio are you dragonfly?

We are in Medina and will be in court in Akron on 7-7-08. We are above the median and I am very nervous.

[Help!]

Same boat here. No motion to dismiss or convert yet, but we have the statement of presumed abuse and a continued 341 hearing coming up. getouttadebt good luck on hearing #2 today, fingers are crossed for you!!

[dragonnfly]

We are in Medina and will be in court in Akron on 7-7-08. We are above the median and I am very nervous.

We are near Toledo. Toledo is where we went to our 341. Let us know how all this progresses for you. Dragonnfly

[getouttadebt]

Thanks to all for the crossed fingers and well wishes...

Although my continued hearing was scheduled for today, it didn't take place. My attorney convinced the attorney for the UST to remove it from the docket. My attorney was going to meet with him today in an attempt to get him to withdraw his motion to dismiss. I will update all when I hear what happened in that meeting.

Best wishes to all,
getouttadebt

[JRScott]

I hope you all get discharged successfully, keep up the good fight.

[AngelinaCatHub]

[dragonnfly]

Hello, me again. On Pacer we now have a continuation of our 341 for June 30th. Do you think this is just because of the US trustee reveiwing our case in 3 weeks? It was filed by the local trustee today not the US trustee, its reason says for "more information". Does this mean we wont get our "no asset" designation in the next few days. What does this mean for discharge? Is that continued too? They had a lot of questions about a 401k loan that we had taken out in June of 07, I think this is what thats about but not really sure.

[laurannm]

Hello, me again. On Pacer we now have a continuation of our 341 for June 30th. Do you think this is just because of the US trustee reveiwing our case in 3 weeks? It was filed by the local trustee today not the US trustee, its reason says for "more information". Does this mean we wont get our "no asset" designation in the next few days. What does this mean for discharge? Is that continued too? They had a lot of questions about a 401k loan that we had taken out in June of 07, I think this is what thats about but not really sure.

Hopefully that is just the three week review the UST requested...keeping my fingers crossed for you

I didn't even realize that would go as far back as a year to look for a 401k loan?

[Help!]

Hello, me again. On Pacer we now have a continuation of our 341 for June 30th. Do you think this is just because of the US trustee reveiwing our case in 3 weeks? It was filed by the local trustee today not the US trustee, its reason says for "more information". Does this mean we wont get our "no asset" designation in the next few days. What does this mean for discharge? Is that continued too? They had a lot of questions about a 401k loan that we had taken out in June of 07, I think this is what thats about but not really sure.

The clock is still set with last day for objections 60 days from your first 341 hearing (check the schedule on PACER). We also took out a 401K loan to stay afloat and there were many questions surrounding how we spent that money. If the UST is interested in your case, you will know it quickly. They have 10 days from your first 341 hearing to file a statement of presumed abuse. If you don't see that statement filed on PACER, maybe your local trustee just wants some additional documentation or has more questions. If you do see it, don't let it scare you.