Means test question

[downwardspiral]

How do you calculate the means test? For example, if the federal allowance for groceries is $752, but I've been spending more around $400 can I put $752 on my monthly budget, or do I have to put what I actually spend. We've been spending $400, but that's not been easy and it's mainly been because we were paying so many CC bills.

There are other allowances I saw, such as $244 for clothing. Again, would I have to show proof that's what I spend a month, or could that just be tacked on to my monthly budget since its an allowable expense.

Thanks!

[marcie26]

I don't have any answers for you, but am bumping for you because I too have these questions!
Good luck finding an attorney, I am still looking myself also!

[Dirk Squarejaw]

On the means test, you use the entire amount they allot you. I believe this is where the discrepency lies for some filers. All looks good and dandy on the means test because what seems like inflated numbers for some of the expenses. Then, when you do schedules I & J with your real expenses you may end up with excess cash at the end of the month if you aren't careful. So make sure that when you fill out I & J, get every expense you can think of that you might have.

[laurannm]

So how does the 22C form play into all of this? I thought that was used to determine your plan payment, and I believe that uses the IRS allotments (very similar to the 22A or means test form)

[lrprn]

So how does the 22C form play into all of this? I thought that was used to determine your plan payment, and I believe that uses the IRS allotments (very similar to the 22A or means test form)

You're right, laura - form B-22C is used to file Ch 13, and B-22A is used to file Ch 7. Whether filing a 7 or a 13, the same required IRS and Census Bureau figures must be used to complete the Means Test. However, 13 filers can get a little bigger break when filling in the rest of their Means Test and Schedules.

The bk law for filing Ch 13 is more open to local interpretation than in Ch 7, so there's more room for a seasoned Ch 13 lawyer to build in legitimate and legal "wiggle room" because he/she knows what the local 13 trustee will accept and what they won't. Writing a good Ch 13 plan that is surviveable for five long years is truly more an art than a science.

Here's an example of how Ch 13 can be different than Ch 7....if you haven't gone to the doctor or bought clothes for a very long time trying to stay afloat financially before filing, it's ok for your Ch 13 lawyer to include a reasonable monthly amount for those necessary living costs when your plan is filed. It's not reasonable for the court to expect that you won't need health care or clothes for five years, even though those costs may not have been in your actual expenditures for quite some time before filing.

This is some of that legal 'wiggle room' in Ch 13 that our friends on the Ch 7 side can't use as liberally because their bk estate is set on the day of filing. Ch 13 is as well, but not in the same hard way as it is in Ch 7. Ch 7 filers have the advantage of not having to worry much about future income after filing. Ch 13 filers have to worry about that the entire length of their plan. There are significant trade-offs between the two chapters for sure.

[downwardspiral]

You're right, laura - form B-22C is used to file Ch 13, and B-22A is used to file Ch 7. Whether filing a 7 or a 13, the same required IRS and Census Bureau figures must be used to complete the Means Test. However, 13 filers can get a little bigger break when filling in the rest of their Means Test and Schedules.

The bk law for filing Ch 13 is more open to local interpretation than in Ch 7, so there's more room for a seasoned Ch 13 lawyer to build in legitimate and legal "wiggle room" because he/she knows what the local 13 trustee will accept and what they won't. Writing a good Ch 13 plan that is surviveable for five long years is truly more an art than a science.

Here's an example of how Ch 13 can be different than Ch 7....if you haven't gone to the doctor or bought clothes for a very long time trying to stay afloat financially before filing, it's ok for your Ch 13 lawyer to include a reasonable monthly amount for those necessary living costs when your plan is filed. It's not reasonable for the court to expect that you won't need health care or clothes for five years, even though those costs may not have been in your actual expenditures for quite some time before filing.

This is some of that legal 'wiggle room' in Ch 13 that our friends on the Ch 7 side can't use as liberally because their bk estate is set on the day of filing. Ch 13 is as well, but not in the same hard way as it is in Ch 7. Ch 7 filers have the advantage of not having to worry much about future income after filing. Ch 13 filers have to worry about that the entire length of their plan. There are significant trade-offs between the two chapters for sure.

So are you saying, if you haven't been spending money on clothes you can't include that as a monthly expense if you are filing for a Ch 7?

[Cali]

We are filing C7, and our attorney said to include clothes in our expenses.

So are you saying, if you haven't been spending money on clothes you can't include that as a monthly expense if you are filing for a Ch 7?

[lrprn]

So are you saying, if you haven't been spending money on clothes you can't include that as a monthly expense if you are filing for a Ch 7?

Sure you can - whatever is reasonable for your needs and type of employment.

You definitely should include an average of what you would have reasonably spent on clothes for yourself and family during the six months prior to filing when filling out your filing forms.

[downwardspiral]

Sure you can - whatever is reasonable for your needs and type of employment.

You definitely should include an average of what you would have reasonably spent on clothes for yourself and family during the six months prior to filing when filling out your filing forms.

Thanks!