Secured debt listed as unsecured?

[rfassett]

As you know, we received our discharge on April 14th. On or about April 10th, long, long after the time for creditor objections had passed, we received reaff paperwork from a creditor that we had listed as unsecured (because we honestly believed the debt to be unsecured). Obviously the creditor was properly and timely notified of the bankruptcy filing. Since the creditor did not respond within the proper time for objecting, and since the reaff paperwork was never signed (nor approved by the bankruptcy court (a requirement for pro se filers)) and since the debt was discharged, what are my options?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

[HHM]

Options for what?

Are they requesting the property back?

[aachudneymiles]

Ingore them! Pretty simple huh? I did I ingored about 3 secured creditor (they went away). I mean they are entitled to their items back (true) but chances are they dont want them and are just trying to scare you into paying. The bk is discharged, just ingore them and watch them go away. If they keep calling and writing and you dont want to be bother just tell them to come get the crap.. Most likely they will not come anyway.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Rfassett, I honestly think they're screwed, *unless* it's for a single big ticket item like a tractor or ATV or big screen TV. If it is (and this is what I'm guessing) a store card like Target, where the contract technically makes it secured, but in truth there's little to no repossessible property, they're pretty much out of luck both ways: nothing much to repossess and failure to act within the timeframe allowed by law. As you've noted, the debt itself is discharged.

I'm not sure why you'd sign a reaff anyway, outside of a mortgage or vehicle, to be honest.

[PaKettle]

Just ignore them.
If they get to be a bother, send them a copy of your discharge and tell them to stop bothering you.
Can't one refer such bothers to one's attorney? Or would there be a further fee for that?

[CindyLou]

They are SOL. The did not file a claim and your case is discharged. Can I be nosey and ask what the item is?

[rfassett]

Thank you all for the great comments. The creditor has made no demands for the property. In fact, the only thing we have heard from them is the aforementioned mail. It WAS for a "bigger ticket" item - a bottom of the line garden tractor which fell within our exemptions and rose the curiosity of neither the trustee, the U S Trustee's office, nor the trial attorney for the rule 2004 examination. The creditor is John Deere and it was my understanding that the credit was just an unsecured revolving credit. And PaKettle, I filed pro se, so bouncing it off the attorney is not an option. I think the sum total of the credit is right around $3,000.

[HHM]

I wouldn't worry about it (but yes, it is likely secured debt).

Legally, they have the right to repo the tractor...liens survive BK. But, I wouln't worry about it.

[shortee]

Sounds like John Deere works like the Polaris Card. Their paperwork is TOTALLY misleading!

[rfassett]

Well, received a call from John Deere two weeks ago - which was left on our answering machine and I just ignored. Three days later, I received a letter asking to be informed where the garden tractor was located and when it could be picked up. I responded in writing, laying out the facts as I stated in the original post. I am awaiting their response. I will let you know when I hear.

[blaze]

So I am confused about items bought with store credit cards and what happens after discharge - and I would like to know - We should be getting our discharge any day - circuit city sent us a re-aff for a computer and tv - we did not sign - they were listed as an unsecured creditor - they did not file an objection - so can they legally start calling me after discharge and harass me asking for stuff back? seems like they would have had to go through the court. and if they are allowed to call and start asking for stuff back - what happens if we don't have it? it seems like they would have had to do something before the discharge for them to have the authority to do that?!

[keepmine]

So I am confused about items bought with store credit cards and what happens after discharge - and I would like to know - We should be getting our discharge any day - circuit city sent us a re-aff for a computer and tv - we did not sign - they were listed as an unsecured creditor - they did not file an objection - so can they legally start calling me after discharge and harass me asking for stuff back? seems like they would have had to go through the court. and if they are allowed to call and start asking for stuff back - what happens if we don't have it? it seems like they would have had to do something before the discharge for them to have the authority to do that?!

The bk extinguishes your liability ot pay the debt. The lein the creditor has is not affected. You can't be asked for money but, they can ask for property to be returned.
If you don't have it, they'll drop the matter unless it's a high dollar item.

[Martha13]

This is a very interesting thread. I, too was wondering about what exactly makes the item secured. I had read on another site about furniture, and something about the sales receipt on its face must disclose that there is a security interest in the item. I've been looking for my sales receipt for furniture purchased in '07 for around $2600. The interest is very high, and I still owe about $2100 (there was a 6 mo no pymt option). I don't want to reaff, the payment is $108 and I don't want to keep making it...though I don't really want anyone knocking on my door and taking my couch and chair The finance company is American General...do you suppose I'd end up ok? Would they even bother to try to take the stuff back?

[blaze]

So when you say lien what do you mean in the situation of a store card? Somewhere in the credit card agreement we signed originally would there be something stating that anything bought in their store would be secured? The card was a Circuity City Visa - only a small percentage of the pruchases on it were even made at the store - we could use it anywhere and used it for gas, groceries etc. They sent us to sign a reaff for the total balance - can you believe that! Hopefully they were just grasping at straws and hoping we'd be scared of losing our tv and sign. The largest purchases were a computer (700.00) and a TV (at most 1000.00) and the most recent purchase was almost a year before we filed. I just hate the idea that after ALL we have been through, we may have to start dealing with phone calls and collectors. If we listed them as a unsecured creditor and they did not file anything claiming otherwise, it seems like we would be protected. But I guess it does not work that way. After all we have learned we still have a lot to learn!

[Stilltheone]

This is a very interesting thread. I, too was wondering about what exactly makes the item secured. I had read on another site about furniture, and something about the sales receipt on its face must disclose that there is a security interest in the item. I've been looking for my sales receipt for furniture purchased in '07 for around $2600. The interest is very high, and I still owe about $2100 (there was a 6 mo no pymt option). I don't want to reaff, the payment is $108 and I don't want to keep making it...though I don't really want anyone knocking on my door and taking my couch and chair The finance company is American General...do you suppose I'd end up ok? Would they even bother to try to take the stuff back?

We also have a "loan" with American General Finance Company. We bought our furniture back in December/January and filed in March. We originally said we wanted to reaffirm at only $750, out of the $1100 original purchase price. They sent us a reaffirm at $985! We are opting not to sign it and hope that they won't come and take our furniture.

I have a friend that's interested in buying my furniture and I'd rather sell it to her than give it back to American General.

We listed the furniture as an "exemption" on our worksheet...I'm wondering since we listed it that way, if it protects us and allows us to keep it.

If you have credit with them, the item is secured. I know the paperwork we signed when we bought our furniture has it listed as a "secured" item. The difference between them and an unsecured lender is the paperwork. I think they're more like taking out a loan than getting a credit card, KWIM?