Paralegal said we may lose our car! Attorney never said a word!

[momof5]

We signed our petition papers yesterday and from what I have read here it should have been a day of slight relief. Its actually just the opposite!!
First the paralegal was a complete ditz. I am not kidding. Sitting there blowing bubbles with her gum and playing with her hair. So unprofessional. Definately not hired for her brains.....
But heres the story...

She saw that we were reaffirming our vehicle. Actually that looked like the only box to be checked that showed we wanted to keep it.(the mortgages both show that we will continue to make payments and retain property) So she made a couple goofy faces and I asked whats wrong. She said " your going to have to go to court about this".

I was totally caught off guard with that statement. We are up to date with the payment and have paid on this for almost 4 years now. We do owe more than its worth but isnt that true for most cars that you purchase and drive off the lot? sooooo
she said the problem is your income doesnt show you can afford it. Well duh!! my husband has been on unemployment for a couple of months. He is back to work now but even with a huge cut in income we will still pay our car payment.
Then she says... "oh never mind. Dont worry about it" with this annoying giggle. I asked her to go get the attorney because this has me feeling sick. She said " he leaves me to give the bad news"

I mentioned this site and said that she is defying everything I have spent days and days and days researching. I said " Why would the bank want the car back when we have been paying on time for the past 4 years, how in the world would they benefit by doing that?" "How much is this going to cost attorney wise?"

Her response was" They dont want it back" and " You go to court yourself for that issue"


What the heck? Is this girl just plain dumb or is something else happening here?

Any thoughts....
The vehicle is worth $7400 we owe $9250 on it. Yes we do show a negative $2,000 but thats because the amounts used for food and everything were based on my husband work income not on unemployment.

I should also mention this: Our stimulas payment is shown as an asset and then exempted on the next page. The paralegal said "dont spend it".... I told her the date it was going to be deposited( per irs website) She thought they werent going to happen until August. So I have to leave the money sitting there until someone figures out if its an asset or an exemption. Isnt that what the attorney is for. Oh yeah that reminds me... the attorney we did meet with twice isnt even going to be the attorney who attends court!

Help my head is spinning!
Thanks in advance!

[Filedat22]

I am by no means one of the experts on this board. But I just wanted to share my experience with you.

I was behind on my car payment (waaay behind) when I filed chapter 7. I had to bring the account current to the tune of about 2500.. But after that I was allowed to reaffirm the car.

I owe about 4000 more on the car than it is worth. ( I know the advice usually given out is to just ride through, not reaffirm, but we didn't have a lot of choice because of some special circumstances).

Anyway, our attorney had to go over our budget with us to see if we could continue to afford the payment, and had to sign a paper stating he had reviewed our budget and that in his opinion we could make the payments. He also had to sign that he had explained to us what it meant to reaffirm, and that we had to acknowledge that as far as that debt was concerned we still owed it just like I had never filed bankruptcy.

But, to make a long story short, we did NOT have to go to court for it. The car company sent us the reaffirmation agreement, both myself and the attorney had to sign it, then it was submitted to the court, and that was it.

[keepmine]

Filedat raises a good point. Did your lawyer sign off on the reaffirmation. If so, I doubt there will be any problems. If not, you'll have to expain to a judge why you wish to reaffirm and he has to agree that it is in your best interest.
Given the minor difference between the amount owed and the loan balance it likely won't be an issue.

[momof5]

What do you mean sign off on the reaffirmation? I do not recall any special papers that said reaffirmation agreement on top. Just the petition papers that showed what we would be doing with car, mortgage 1 and mortgage 2.

Now I am even more worried... I am telling you this girl was nothing like I would expect in an attorneys office. I think I knew more than her!

[Filedat22]

Not sure if this is standard practice, but we did not sign our reaffirmation papers until after the 341 hearing.

[Dollar Bill]

I hear ya momof5. Some parallegals are clueless. I believe we simply know a great deal more just by sticking with the great people of this board. The things we learn here can sometimes blow their minds. I had a few things to say to a parallegal about my situation. She told me I was crazy. She then ran it across the attorney...he validated my statements to her as TRUE ofcourse.

We plan to reaffirm. I beleive once the petition is filed, you'll then begin the reaff agreement processes directly with the banks. They will contact the lawyer or you. So on and so forth.

I have heard that some judges will not approve them if they believe you cannot make the payments. Sounds like you may be super neg. due to your husbands unemployment income.

Is there any chance of working by the 341 date? Or shortly after?

[laurannm]

Sounds like you may not have even signed the reaffirmation papers, just the statement of intent?

Not reaffirming may not be a bad thing in your scenario...ride-through may be the better option since you are upside down.

[AngelinaCat]

Hi Momof5 (and Basset Boy 6):

Here's my take on this--though I am far from experienced in all this mess. My husband and I own a 2004 Volkswagen Jetta that we had paid off when we had money. Then we crossed a crack-pot millionaire and made a huge enemy who started harassing us legally with frivolous lawsuits. (See my earlier post this morning that was actually posted by my frazzled husband after a sleepless night.) So, we borrowed against this car to try to pay the legal fees that were coming in by the thousands. That was part of the start of our downward spiral into BK.

Anyway, when we filed Ch7 on Dec. 28, 2007, our very inept BK attorney DID tell us that we would have to re-affirm the debt if we wanted to keep the car--which we did. We signed an online Reaffirmation Form that went with our online filing. What was NOT told to us was that once our BK filing hit the court system and our creditors were notified, our Credit Union would close our account—that my husband had had for 40 years—and a ‘nasty-gram’ sent ordering us to surrender our bank cards. The paperwork took about a week to reach us. Meanwhile, all our online payments and outstanding checks were bounced, and we could not even draw money out of an ATM to buy food.

Once we got the letter ordering us to surrender the cards, my husband called the Credit Union and talked with the credit people. They were very nice and helpful and they explained that yes, we could re-affirm the debt, but that it had to be THEIR paperwork, and they had to present it before the Court in their jurisdiction (Dayton, Ohio). The paperwork came, we signed it, got it notarized and sent it off. Once that was done, my husband called back and again talked to the credit department. By this time we had wracked up a hefty stack of NSF and late fees because of all this. The head of the credit department was very helpful and reversed the NSF and late fees, a little more that $1000.00 worth.

As far as your attorney and the paralegal there—I feel for you—but at least now I feel better that we’re not alone. BTW our Attorney is in Gainesville; the Court is in Jacksonville. She arranged a local to be with us at our 341. Seems to be standard practice. And also I have observed over these 8 painful years—no attorney does ANYTHING on YOUR case until the last possible minute.

My Best~~~~~

[AngelinaCat]

Actually I should add this advice:

Please don't pick a BK attorney, or any attorney for that matter, the way we did it. My husband went on the Internet and picked one at random, because she was 'out of town'. We live in a VERY small town, and we have seen the power brokers--mostly attorneys--gathered for cocktails after hours. Even in spite of the 'Attorney-Client' privilege, people’s personal stuff gets out as gossip. We did not want a local attorney because of the local politics, but had no clue that Jacksonville is the Court venue for us. So, we have/had a Gainesville attorney and a Jacksonville Court. It would have been much better to have had a Jax attorney—but we didn’t know any better. And fuel prices for travelling for consultations do not help. S*I*G*H*

[momof5]

THANK YOU ALL for your replies....
My husband did start working this past Monday so that is a positive although its only about $600 more a month than he was getting on unemployment. We will certainly be able to afford our car payment as I have always considered that a priority. With 5 kids, I need my minivan!

Angelinacat: Believe it or not but our car is through a credit union as well!!! Your information might just have saved us the same trouble that you have gone through!!!!!!

We have both our car and home equity through them as well as a checking and savings. We had done direct deposit with this new employer for the checking at the credit union. We also have a checking at a 'regular' bank and tomorrow he is putting in the paperwork to have his direct deposit sent to that bank instead. After reading your story I am NOT taking any chances!!!


We found our attorney because they advertise advertise advertise throughout Western NY. Everyone knows who this company is and I thought that would be a positive. Lots of business= extra care because they should know their stuff. Big mistake in the midst of desperate situation.

[PaKettle]

Momof5, in that situation I would demand to speak with the ATTORNEY.
Maybe the paralegal doesn't know it but she is not allowed to give legal advice. That's what attorneys get paid for. Assuming you have paid your attorney, he/she should be the one to discuss these matters with.

I would not trust my bankruptcy to some bubble-gum chewing young girl! Demand service and attention from your attorney!

[AngelinaCat]

Hi Momof5 (and Basset Boy 6):

Thank you for the kind words. I am glad to know that our experience may have helped you avoid our pitfalls.

I suggest calling your credit union first thing in the morning--or go in person if you are local-- and talk to the credit people. They will have dealt with or are dealing with thousands of BK situations. A friendly voice to voice, or face to face discussion seems to do wonders and is much better than the impersonal cold black and white of legal documents.

My Best~~~~~

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Momof5, I have nothing to add, but I did want to reiterate what is probably plain by now. You asked:

Is this girl just plain dumb...?

That seems VERY likely.

...or is something else happening here?

Someone spiked her bubblegum with acid and she is actually responding to you from an alternate reality where Jim Morrison still lives?

Seriously, from everything I have read you personally are right on the money. Don't be surprised to find you know more than many paralegals -- you would, unfortunately, NOT be the first. I'm just grateful you know!

Also, *in general*, a debtor does not go to court on a standard reaff unless he or she is filing pro se (without an atty). The law and the courts assume that if the debtor is represented by an atty, the atty has explained the legal ramifications of entering into a reaffirmation agreement. But if the debtor has no atty, the judge has to sign off on it because that assumption of having received counsel isn't there. So I really don't know what she was thinking; you are nowhere NEAR a separate reaff hearing yet and likely never will be.

*blecch*

I really am sorry she got your blood pressure up. It seems, from where I'm sitting, to have been completely unnecessary. But kudos to you for knowing your stuff!!!

[CindyLou]

I think what the paralegal may have been trying to say is that because your negative 2000/month, then the attorney will not allow the reafirmation.

If an attorney does not feel you can afford it then it may not be allowed. The attorney does have to sign off on it.

You can not reafirm property that you do not have the mean to pay.

So, she may not have been expressing it correctly, but in my opinion that is what she was saying.

[momof5]

I think what the paralegal may have been trying to say is that because your negative 2000/month, then the attorney will not allow the reafirmation.

If an attorney does not feel you can afford it then it may not be allowed. The attorney does have to sign off on it.

You can not reafirm property that you do not have the mean to pay.

So, she may not have been expressing it correctly, but in my opinion that is what she was saying.

The thing that gets me about all that is that our monthly expenses(schedule J) were based on an 'average' when my husband was working(and we were using credit cards) but our income decreased a great amount when he lost his job. We are NOT spending $800 on groceries right now but that is what is down on the schedule. We are not buying clothes right now. We are not buying gifts right now or any misc. We wont be buying things like this until he gets his first or second paycheck from the new job. Gosh I really wish the attorney had said something before hand!!