UST Filed Statement Of Presumed Abuse

[justplaintired]

Let's place the blame where it squarely belongs - on the creditors and THEIR lack of conscience in granting credit just because we said "pretty please". I have often said that the banker may be your best friend, but the bank is not your friend. Think about it. And I once heard that the write-off in the credit card industry for people that default was somewhat less than 1/10th of 1% of the gross revenue. Most other industries would die to have that small of a write-off for bad debt. (Major retailers most likely have a higher percentage than that just from pilferage and shoplifting.) And then for these same workers of satan to labor so hard on Congress to change the bankruptcy rules back in '05 is simply beyond comprehension. Their just rewards are coming back to them now that bankruptcies are climbing again. The 2005 changes to the bankruptcy code was by far the worst piece of legislation written in US history. You will not see a tear from me when this industry goes completely in the toilet. Yes each individual shares responsibilty for the plight within which they find themselves, but the creditors share a bigger part and should truly be punished for pushing so many people into this level of stress. It used to be that credit was granted on the three "C's" - character, cash flow, and collaterol. For the last several years, character and collaterol have been ignored. Therein lies the problem - and the blame.

BRAVO! Couldn't have said it better. I so resent cc companies and blame them for so much of this mess we are in. We never asked for one single card, they just sent them. Upped our limits, never asked for a single one. they just kept coming, kept increasing, it was like suddenly we had access to more money then anyone with our income should ever be allowed. I know, we could have said no, Don't think I don't know that. But honestly when you've lived all your adult life with no extra money, managed to pay your bills, but not alot extra to spend, and this cc comes and you can have anything your heart desires, how do you say no????? I never had willpower for anything, food, cigs, choc....., now I had access to lots of money, WOW!!!! I know we should have said no, but I also think they should not be allowed to send cc to anyone and everyone. Good credit Bad Credit anyone can have a cc.

I do blame cc and I also think their time is coming. Someday, someone with half a brain will take a good hard look at these vampires and stop them. I just hope I am alive to see it! They are no better then those loan sharks in some of those movies you watch, only thing is they don't bust your knee caps, they send you into BK!

[vleisme]

We live in America because we have freedom of choice. I do not totally agree with the above post the creditors do not twist our arms and make us spend beyond our means.I did not have to accept the higher limits or open the the new card offers that come in the mail by the thousands. I take the blame totally. I have no medical or divorce issues, I just screwed up and now I will pay, nobody to blame but myself.

[jp2861]

We live in America because we have freedom of choice. I do not totally agree with the above post the creditors do not twist our arms and make us spend beyond our means.I did not have to accept the higher limits or open the the new card offers that come in the mail by the thousands. I take the blame totally. I have no medical or divorce issues, I just screwed up and now I will pay, nobody to blame but myself.

I must admit it's refreshing to hear someone take personal responsibility for their actions. I was starting to think I was the only one blaming myself for screwing up. I don't think any of us can blame the lenders for our problems. Thinking back, I don't recall being coerced into applying for and accepting the credit. Can't blame the credit card companies when I had the choice to accept or decline. Bad choices yield bad results, and I too am paying the piper.

[Stilltheone]

I must admit it's refreshing to hear someone take personal responsibility for their actions. I was starting to think I was the only one blaming myself for screwing up. I don't think any of us can blame the lenders for our problems. Thinking back, I don't recall being coerced into applying for and accepting the credit. Can't blame the credit card companies when I had the choice to accept or decline. Bad choices yield bad results, and I too am paying the piper.

We filed 7 and we take full responsibility for our debt. We know it was our actions and our actions alone that got us into the debt.

It really "rubbed me" wrong when Mike stated that if you file a 7, you basically don't have a conscience.

[vleisme]

To Stilltheone
I think some get bitter because they could not file ch 7 and had to pay for many years in a 13 and they play the "morals" card. I am not saying this is the case with majormike but it seems that way with some posters that are upset they have to file 13. Bankruptcy is bad 7 or 13 doesn't matter and doesn't make them better if they are in a 13.
Just my opinion!

[rrockinggramma]

whoa here. All of us are here for our own reasons. I think that MM was just trying to state that a chapter 13 isn't the end of the world per say. Maybe not the greatest world but not the end either. So whatever situation you find yourself in, a solution will present itself and in the end it will all work out. Lets all be positive here, kk guys.

[MajorMike]

Ok, I JUST saw this post and I did NOT mean to offend. I'm just speaking for myself as stated in my post previous!
I pay $825 into my plan and if I found I didn't have the income to do it, I would FIND IT. Whether it be online doing something part time ( like I do now with mystery shopping and surveys ) or working at McDonalds.....I would find it. This is because I want to pay some back. I'm not at 100 percent payback by any means. I can actually pay more per month but my attorney won't let me. I can NEVER be forced into a 7 because the mediun for our state is only $40,000 or so and I know between us we can do that, whether we're home sick and disabled, or healthy and working. There are so many avenues to go to and jobs to be found and for me, I won't sit back and let the decisions I made ( and they were bad ) make me feel like I'm cheating someone. I signed up for the credit, I used it and I owe it. PERIOD.
I don't want you to think for a minute that you need to do the same OR think the same as me.
THIS IS MY POINT OF VIEW. I could NEVER consciously do a Chapter 7. "EYE" being the key word here.
Having my debt completely wiped out because I was careless, is not me.
I was careless with credit.
Those of you with medical bills and unforseen circumstances, I feel for and I am not judging YOU for that.
So please don't judge ME for the way I feel. thanks

[$$only4ever]

Hmmm......Let me see.......If I had the option of filing a Chapter 7 instead of 5 years in a Chapter 13, what would I pick?

[Stilltheone]

Ok, I JUST saw this post and I did NOT mean to offend. I'm just speaking for myself as stated in my post previous!
I pay $825 into my plan and if I found I didn't have the income to do it, I would FIND IT. Whether it be online doing something part time ( like I do now with mystery shopping and surveys ) or working at McDonalds.....I would find it. This is because I want to pay some back. I'm not at 100 percent payback by any means. I can actually pay more per month but my attorney won't let me. I can NEVER be forced into a 7 because the mediun for our state is only $40,000 or so and I know between us we can do that, whether we're home sick and disabled, or healthy and working. There are so many avenues to go to and jobs to be found and for me, I won't sit back and let the decisions I made ( and they were bad ) make me feel like I'm cheating someone. I signed up for the credit, I used it and I owe it. PERIOD.
I don't want you to think for a minute that you need to do the same OR think the same as me.
THIS IS MY POINT OF VIEW. I could NEVER consciously do a Chapter 7. "EYE" being the key word here.
Having my debt completely wiped out because I was careless, is not me.
I was careless with credit.
Those of you with medical bills and unforseen circumstances, I feel for and I am not judging YOU for that.
So please don't judge ME for the way I feel. thanks

I'm sorry if you didn't "mean to offend" anyone, but, for me, it was offensive.

Do you honestly think that someone who files a Chapter 7 bankruptcy doesn't "feel bad" for filing?

I will be the first one to admit that we were careless with our credit and overspent WAAAAY beyond our means. BUT, had it not been for a $25K cut in pay for the year, we would still be plodding along, making our minimums.

I'm quite new to this bankruptcy process and don't have all of the answers, but I do know this....Filing bankruptcy, chaper 7 OR 13, is STILL bankruptcy..PERIOD. Even though you're "making payments" in a Ch13, the cc company that you had credit with is still losing money and you're still defaulting on your original contract with them.

Personally, I don't feel like I'm "cheating someone". The bankruptcy process is there for a reason and I'm not going to let someone else make me feel as if I'm doing something illegal by filing.

Good luck to you, Mike~

[diviaruba]

Ok, I JUST saw this post and I did NOT mean to offend. I'm just speaking for myself as stated in my post previous!
I pay $825 into my plan and if I found I didn't have the income to do it, I would FIND IT. Whether it be online doing something part time ( like I do now with mystery shopping and surveys ) or working at McDonalds.....I would find it. This is because I want to pay some back. I'm not at 100 percent payback by any means. I can actually pay more per month but my attorney won't let me. I can NEVER be forced into a 7 because the mediun for our state is only $40,000 or so and I know between us we can do that, whether we're home sick and disabled, or healthy and working. There are so many avenues to go to and jobs to be found and for me, I won't sit back and let the decisions I made ( and they were bad ) make me feel like I'm cheating someone. I signed up for the credit, I used it and I owe it. PERIOD.
I don't want you to think for a minute that you need to do the same OR think the same as me.
THIS IS MY POINT OF VIEW. I could NEVER consciously do a Chapter 7. "EYE" being the key word here.
Having my debt completely wiped out because I was careless, is not me.
I was careless with credit.
Those of you with medical bills and unforseen circumstances, I feel for and I am not judging YOU for that.
So please don't judge ME for the way I feel. thanks

So Mike, if you net out your $600 car payment, it looks like you're paying $12,000 or so on your $96,000 debt. I hope your conscience is assuaged. By the way, how much was it that you screwed AmEx for at the last minute?

[CindyLou]

I filed 7 and never felt bad. It was legally available for me and I utilized it. I plan to keep my financial situation positive and hopefully never need to go down that road.

The reason for the bk should not determine the level of guilt.

Again its not a morality issue, its a legal/financial issue.

[woohoogirl]

By the way, how much was it that you screwed AmEx for at the last minute?

I love it!

Mike, so am I a deadbeat worthless piece of scum, because I filed a ch 7??? I guess that with your reasoning, since I did live beyond my means AND had medical bills, I'm just semi worthless. At least I can sleep at night knowing that those charges on my credit card four months before filing were for necessities, not gift cards to get me by....I'm not passing judgment, Mike, that seems to be your job.

[rrockinggramma]

I have done both. I felt bad at first but once the stress was gone, it didn't matter. The end game here is a better life for us all. Which way we achieve it doesn't matter, in the end the stress is gone and our life is better. Sometimes we all let the guilt get in our way. Guilt over filing, Guilt over telling our kids their life has to change because of mistakes made and on and on and on. I can find guilt where there is none. LOL I am good at it. But no matter what your situation was, the goal is to have a better future. Which chapter you file to get there doesn't matter.

[slam22]

Let's place the blame where it squarely belongs - on the creditors and THEIR lack of conscience in granting credit just because we said "pretty please". I have often said that the banker may be your best friend, but the bank is not your friend. Think about it. And I once heard that the write-off in the credit card industry for people that default was somewhat less than 1/10th of 1% of the gross revenue. Most other industries would die to have that small of a write-off for bad debt. (Major retailers most likely have a higher percentage than that just from pilferage and shoplifting.) And then for these same workers of satan to labor so hard on Congress to change the bankruptcy rules back in '05 is simply beyond comprehension. Their just rewards are coming back to them now that bankruptcies are climbing again. The 2005 changes to the bankruptcy code was by far the worst piece of legislation written in US history. You will not see a tear from me when this industry goes completely in the toilet. Yes each individual shares responsibilty for the plight within which they find themselves, but the creditors share a bigger part and should truly be punished for pushing so many people into this level of stress. It used to be that credit was granted on the three "C's" - character, cash flow, and collaterol. For the last several years, character and collaterol have been ignored. Therein lies the problem - and the blame.

Well I think there is probably plenty of blame to go around. Ultimatly it is our own responsiblity to take care of our financial lives. In my case living beyond our means, my wife losing her job and the collapse of the real estate market in Southern California has done us in. The 2005 BK sure hasn't helped. This was a law written by the large banks, passed by a bought and paid for Congress, for the benefit of the large banks, the banks collection agency (US Trustee's), and lawyers who process people through the system. The group that supposedly it was designed to help, debtors, are the one's that are taking it up the keester. Perhaps the Goddess of Justice is really a cross dresser with prick up her skirt when it comes to BK.

[megadebt]

Well said rrockinggramma....personally speaking after going through the whole range of emotions when we decided to file, I am at the point where I have accepted the fact this is a business decision using the rights provided to us by this country. I am absolutely going for a 7 and could really care less about morals, feeling bad, etc. Right now every decision I make is for the benefit of my family and quite frankly, if Ch 7 is in our best interests, then so be it. But if a Ch 13 is on our future, then that's ok too. I am excited and anxious to get filed and get this process going, whatever Ch gets thrown our way