Us Trustee Wont Budge! Help

[lost1312]

I hope that adding my other child will help. That would put me under the means by a lot, as with just the one child I was over by about 5-6K. My monthly expenses, (post wife leaving) I am 1,300.00 in the negative. Even without the high car payment, I'm still in the negative. I know that Ford will come after me as I called to get a payoff on the car just in case I could sell it quick. I was transfered to the BK department. I spoke to a lady who was very nice, but she did tell me that more than likely the attorneys for Ford would object to the BK.
Can someone explain to me how "No presumed abuse" can be in the findings, yet they still try to dismiss? I don't get that at all. Thanks

[keepmine]

What that means is, their is no evidence of any serious attempt to abuse the system-sort of lot saying you got some bad advice.
And, I'd agree. You really jumped the gun here. How are you going to be able to support yourself post bk with a $1300/month shortfall? To me, that's your real problem.

[lost1312]

keepmind- I hear ya, that is a big concern. I have a line on a good house to rent for now so that will eliminate my huge house payment and utilities. this will get me close. we are short handed at work right now and should be able to get some OT to offset the rest. also, I waited at my attny's office for TWO f'n hours today for mt apt. that HE set up! guess what....he no showed!! can I call the US trustee and tell him all this? is there some sort of accountability that falls on attorneys??

[PaKettle]

keepmind- I hear ya, that is a big concern. I have a line on a good house to rent for now so that will eliminate my huge house payment and utilities. this will get me close. we are short handed at work right now and should be able to get some OT to offset the rest. also, I waited at my attny's office for TWO f'n hours today for mt apt. that HE set up! guess what....he no showed!! can I call the US trustee and tell him all this? is there some sort of accountability that falls on attorneys??

If you are certain that he did not list your 2nd child and should have, I would definitely amend the petition. Maybe you could get the Trustee's info off Pacer and call or email him and explain your situation, tell him you have had trouble getting ahold of your attorney and so are coming to him...

I think I would maybe fire this attorney and get another one...

I don't know if the attorney has done anything seriously "wrong" but he certainly doesn't sound like a great one.

[lost1312]

PaKettle- I think you are right, I need to fire him. I have paid him $1,150.00 thus far and have no more to pay another attny, thats my only concern. I truly believe that non of this would be happening if my second child would have been listed and I would have been way under the means for my state. I wonder if the US trustee would help me out at all. If I let my attny go, I know I wont get any of my money back. I have called some other local attny's and told them my story. They ask me who my attny is and when I tell them, they start laughing!! Not good news for me!

[lost1312]

Well, here it is. I'm getting forced into a chap 13. I have no idea what this involves as I have only studied up on 7's. I spoke with my so called "attorney" yesterday. He told me that he was going to try and get me a 250.00 a month payment and give up my tax return as well for the next 5 yrs. I ASSUMED this was still giving up all my unsecured and secured items. I found a house to rent for a reasonable price as I figured that I would be getting forclosed on in the next few months. I called and spoke with my attny's "assistant" and she said that she was under the assumption that I was keeping the house?!?!?! This is the whole reason I wanted to file as I am 50-70K in the hole on it! WTF! She was saying that the chap 13 only includes unsecured debt?? This is not where MOST of my debit is, thus WILL NOT HELP ME! Is this true?? I thought I could walk away from it all and just agree on a payment based on my money situation? Can you guys please enlighten me on the basics of chap 13. This by far has been the worst time of my entire life! My attorney has cost me everything and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do....

[seanf12]

In this case, why would Ford object to the discharge? is it because the car is so expensive, or the timing of it (or both)?

I just purchased a new car last month and will have only made 2 payments by the time I file (A reasonably priced car, $14k).

[danaf]

Did your attorney ammend the paperwork and add the other child????

Your attorney is already obviously incompetent - do not let him put you into a 13. He is only seeing $$$ signs as a ch 13 costs more. And he may be trying to take the easy way out since he screwed up on your case.

If worse comes to worse, you can always reafirm the car.

but do you know for a fact if your attorney has ammended the paperwork or not?

[lost1312]

danaf- He beats around the bush everytime I ask him about the second child. Then he goes into the fact that the problem has been the "CAR". I cant ever get a straight answer from him. He tries to tell me that it would not matter at this point as the whole case revolves around the car. I can't see one single item being such a huge problem. I have already reafirmed the car to make good on it since it was purchased so close to the filing date. HE SUCKS and I have no money to pay for another attorney. It sounds as if I have to start from square one and go through a whole nother 341 hearing and get all new trustees. Is that the case?? I really want to call the US Trustee and tell him all that is going on. The big problem is that I have spoken to a few other attorneys, they both have told me that the US Trustee that I have is a jerk and the worst I could have gotten.
Question-- On the 13, what exactly to I have to pay a percentage on?? My "entire" debit or just unsecured. As I mentioned, most of my debit that I want to go away is the negative on the house that was in a flooded area. Am I stuck with this house or can I walk away from it all? Do I pay a % of the difference or is that what the "Attorney" is supposed to work out with the trustee. He said something about getting a payment plan instead of a %, so I assumed that I was walking away from everything just like I was on the 7. The Trustee can try and get what ever dollar amount out of me that he wants, but if I can't pay it, I can't pay it! FRUSTRATING!!

[lrprn]

I called and spoke with my attny's "assistant" and she said that she was under the assumption that I was keeping the house?!?!?! This is the whole reason I wanted to file as I am 50-70K in the hole on it! WTF! She was saying that the chap 13 only includes unsecured debt??

Here's a prime reason why "assistants" are not allowed by law to give you legal advice - she's 100% wrong. If your state's legal governing body finds out about this, your lawyer can be in very hot water.

After filing Ch 13 filers sometimes figure out that they cannot afford their houses or other secured assets. They then surrender their homes while they are in Ch 13. Others file a 13 to save another asset and surrender their homes from the start. Just realize that surrendering your home when you file Ch 7 or 13 in some bk districts means you cannot use the home mortgage payment and home upkeep costs in your expenses.

Can you guys please enlighten me on the basics of chap 13.

Here's several good links that explain the basics of Ch 13 -

http://www.uscourts.gov/bankruptcycourts/bankruptcybasics/chapter13.html

http://moranlaw.net/13workings.htm#Chapter%2013%20practice

http://www.abanet.org/publiced/practical/bankruptcy13_whatis.html

http://www.bankruptcyvisuals.com/viewcharts.html

My attorney has cost me everything and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do....

Sure there's something you can do if you feel that your lawyer made mistakes that hurt you - file a grievance against your lawyer with your state's attorney general or other legal policing body. Here's the link for who to contact and how - just look up your state - http://www.nbtanet.org/public/discipline/index.shtml

[danaf]

OK - listen. There are people on here way more knowlegable than I am on these situations and I'm sure they will chime in.

If I were in your shoes this is what I'd do.

1. Try to calm down

2. Get tough. Call your attorney and tell him your grievances directly and if he does not correct his screw ups and get you into a 7 as you should be - you will file a complaint. Tell him to go to hell with a 13. Threaten him to the hilt and tell him he has 1 day to fix this. Give him 1 day to file the ammendents (including your second child). Tell him on the day that you speak to him that you want proof by 5pm that day that he has done what you asked or you will fire him and file a complaint with the bar. If by 5pm he has not delivered.......

2. Fire the jerk officially with a letter stating the reasons why. Fax it to his office. Be professional with this letter but state your claims, directly and to the point. Ask for reimbursement on your fees since he screwed up. Tell him in this ltr that you are filing an aggreivance with the State Bar.

3. File an aggreivance with the state bar against your attorney via a letter highlighting what he did and did not do, including the copy of the letter you sent to you attorney firing him. And also asking for reimbursement on your fees. Do this on the same day you fire your attorney.

3. Go to your states bk site or call the clerk of the court and find out how to ammend your bk petition and then do it yourself. From what I understand, it is not very difficult. Or alternatively - there are doc preparers everywhere that can do this for not much money.

There are plenty of people that file pro-se and do so successfully. From what I read - you can give up your house, reaffirm your car, and include your other child and you should be ok. And imo, if you fire your attorney & lodge a complaint this should not go unoticed.

You are in a bad situation BUT it may be possible to get out of it. You just need to calm down, educate yourself, don't depend on this attorney - do your own research and you may be able to overcome this.

Let me finish by saying this is what I'd do if I were in your situation with no money to pay another attorney. I'm no expert and I'm not sure my advice is the best advice. It is simply what I would do.

[danaf]

And I want to add - if you haven't already done this - look at the schedules & compare them to your current budget against the IRS allowable standard which are on the us trustee site - to see if you find any other discrepancies you may need to ammend. This sucks but you need to pull up your boot-straps and deal with it head on. If you have any questions - post them - that is what this site is here for.

[lost1312]

lrprn- Thank you so much for the links. I will study them for sure. My house payments are $1,400.00 without any escrow (ins&property taxes paid seperate). I have an 80%-20% loan and my interest rates are 9 and 10 as I was talked into an adjustable ARM. Of corse my payments have gone up every year instead of down like was promised. I found a very nice house at $850.00 a month and still in my childrens school district which is HUGE for us. If I go ahead and rent this place, can I make that an expense? I just SOOOOOO dont want to lose out on this place as I only have till Friday to let the owners know. They will rent to someone else as two other couples are looking at it.

danaf- You are SOOO right! This is what I need to do. I'm going to look into representing myself and just really do my homework. I do need to calm down, for sure. It's just so hard because every time I think to myself "Well, it can't get any worse!" I sure as heck does. The frustration and worry this has all caused me is off the charts. Thank you for you support. I will make sure my second child is on the record!! I truly believe this will help, even though my attny says its beyond that point now. Thanks again!!

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Lost, you've gotten some *really* great advice on this thread, and I hope you take it.

But to reiterate/add to what Danaf and Lrprn said, your communication with this atty -- whether you keep him, fire him, and/or file a Bar complaint on him -- from this point forward needs to be conducted in writing, sent ceritified return receipt requested. If you get straight answers and some action, great. If not -- which is more likely from everything you've written -- you have enough ammo to back up whatever your next action is going to be.

Personally -- and this is just my thought -- I would fire him at this point even though you have already paid him because you cannot act in your own behalf legally while you still have him retained. That is to say, you cannot file your own amendments, call the trustee (and expect anything! ) or take other action on your own behalf. If I am wrong, I hope one of the attys here will correct me, but my understanding is that you're either pro se or represented by atty of record: you cannot be both.

That said, I would fire him after a few more written communications, which I would undertake so that I could make a Bar complaint and possibly get some of my money back (unearned fees). Very long shot, but a paper trail can only help you at this point, not just for a Bar complaint but to show the trustee by way of explaining how you got to be pro se. Do this for a week or so; even if you get no response send at least two letters, three if you can.

While I was doing this, within two weeks, I would fire him so as to have him off the case prior to my 341.

(You can try to get another atty at this point -- they can talk to you now that you don't have an atty -- but you've already said that money is an issue, so I'm assuming that is not a likely option and that once you fire him you will go pro se, which is the position my advice is geared toward.)

I would, after firing him, *immediately* send a certified letter to my trustee letting him know that I am now pro se, saying exactly why, and being sure to mention that my atty misrepresented my true financial picture in my filing and how. I would add that I will be filing amendments to my case, and to ask for a specific list of requested documents. I would not ask for a delay in anything at this point; it's an informational letter, nothing more.

The trustee may call you back and ask questions or he may respond in writing; either way be forewarned that the trustee cannot and will not give you legal advice. Just answer him as best you can, keep emotion out of it, if you don't know something say so, and you'll get along fine. But this initial letter is very important. It should be businesslike and brief, but include all the important points I mentioned: this is going to have an effect on the way he proceeds with your case.

As soon as I fired that initial certified letter off to the trustee, I would start working on my amendments. The forms are at uscourts.gov, and you can call the bankruptcy clerk's office to see how they like amendments done: usually they want the entire form resubmitted, but sometimes they will accept partial "add/delete" style amendments. (Personally, I'd just redo the entire form(s) necessary; it's actually simpler.) BTW, you can handwrite if your handwriting is very clear and legible, no need to pay a bk preparer. From the sounds of things, you are pretty clear on what needs to be changed already, so you're a step ahead.

I would also attend my 341 as scheduled, and ask for a continuance (legalese for "delay") if necessary to be able to assemble whatever docs may be needed.

If you do not already have the Nolo Press book on how to file Ch7, definitely get it!!! At this point it will be your very best friend! It tells you what forms are what, how to complete them, how to file amendments, all that. You can ask questions here on the board too.

And yes, you can give up the house just as easily pro se as you can with an atty. Go ahead and lock in your rental if you can, because no matter what happens I'm hearing you say you can't afford it anyway, so get that weight off your shoulders.

One final note: if you do decide that 13 is your best bet, still fire this jackass and find someone competent. One of the attys you called and laughed at the mention of his name would be a good start. See, if you go Ch13, you're stuck with this loser for 3-5 years AND he profits from it nicely. I do not feel he has done you a good service AT ALL.

But you still have time to save your bk, AND get the trustee on your side by filing a correct picture of your finances. BTW, once you've fired this atty, a call to the bankruptcy clerk will tell you how to have him removed as counsel of record.

I forgot to mention -- I did my own Ch7 pro se, and received my discharge in March with no problems or issues. It can be done. Good luck to you!!!

[FreshLikeADaisy]

P.S. BTW, you can give up the car in the 7 as well as the house -- no sweat -- and what your atty is saying about "it's too late to add the second child" is utterly wrong, because you have the right to amend your petition at any point prior to closing, so don't worry about that either. Just add the second kid in when you redo your forms, etc. Good luck!!!

P.S. The link to the Nolo Press book is in my sig -- you can buy it for download, or you can get it at Barnes & Nobles, etc. But do definitely get it and read it!!!