Confused on C7

[Teddy]

I am confused.

The attorney I spoke with (and retained) said I would qualify for C7.

I am not so sure. I did the worksheets with all of our living expenses and I come up with $350 left.

This is going to pretty much automatically throw me to C13 won't it?

I don't want to do C13 - I would rather just keep things the way they are. He wrote a letter to my debt management plan telling them to stop my auto-pay. This is worrying me because if C7 is not going to work then I really don't want to cancel my auto-pay.

What do you guys think? I know, I probably should call him but I thought I'd see if you guys had an opinion.

I read online that if you are under the median (I am) that you automatically qualify for C7 and don't need to do the means test.

I'm confused...

[PaKettle]

No, you still need to do the means test, but there are parts you don't have to fill out.

I would call your attorney and say what you have said here. Although you may figure you have $350 left, maybe you are forgetting some expenses or are way low on some and the attorney is giving you a bit more expenses in some areas. In my case my attorney didn't even ask me to itemize my expenses, except for rent and utilities and cable etc.. Stuff like clothes and household and etc., he just filled in the blanks how he thought they should be. I think they are given a certain amount of leeway to do that, even though it may not technically be "correct".

So maybe your attorney is accustomed to getting the ch. 7's through by filling in the blanks on expenses and if it works, then great.

It is also quite possible that you are forgetting some expenses. What about tires and tune-ups? haircuts? etc... There are probably many things you are forgetting, and if you think hard maybe you can come up with more legitimate expenses.

Ask your attorney how he came up with your expenses and why you are coming up short when you figure them...

[Teddy]

thanks - I did call him. Let's just say I need to look at my expenses again. I do think they have certain allowances they can use for clothing, etc.

[jp2861]

If you're under the median you won't be doing the means test. You'll complete the income portion of the 22A and when you get to line 15 you'll stop. At that point you'll check off the "presumption doesn't arise" box.

As far as your expenses go I would print off a Sch I and figure your expenses as close to your income as possible. I listed everything on an excel spreadsheet, line by line. What didn't fit into a category on the Sch I was added to another category. It may have made some categories look a little high but I brought my spreadsheet to the 341 just in case I was asked. Your lawyer probably has his/her own way of filling in the amounts. The important thing for you to do is make sure you list every little thing you spend on each month. Then take your big dollar items such as car tires, tune ups, etc and divide by 12, and include those amounts. You'll be surprised how much it all can add up to.

[lrprn]

Here's a good online expenses calculator that helps you figure out what you may have left out of your own expenses list - http://www.goainc.com/fraley/calcula...alculator.html

Also go back through your check register and (if you kept them) your credit card bills for the last year. That helps find other items you may not think about - once a year fees like (if appropriate) property taxes, homeowner association fees, professional dues, etc. for example.

[Teddy]

Thanks!

Expenses like car tires is actually something I need to be thinking about. Stuff like that would normally have gone on the charge card.

The problem I'm having in my case is that I was always paying my bills and on time but it's come down to I have no money left after I pay them, then keep charging, etc. So, I am filing to be able to have the cash to pay for things.

I have my cards all maxed out and I couldn't even charge tires if I needed to.

Do they want receipts & stuff? I'll pull up those links. What I don't really like is that they are using all of my husbands income and we don't really have our money together. He buys groceries & gives me a set amount of cash each month and what he does with the rest of his money is up to him.

That is where I'm having a little trouble because if I have to include all of his money and account for where it's all spent, to me, things are looking a little out of whack. It's making my categories seem high (because we probably skimp right now).

The attorney said my income needs to match my spending (using the amount I have after I file)

Another thing that is throwing me is that I get paid bi-weekly so I know I have to average it out over the year and that average is adding $185 to my "monthly" income so 10 out of I have $185 less than what my average has worked out to be. I usually use those checks for whatever, last year I took a trip to see my mom and the other one always gets used for Christmas so I'm not charging Christmas gifts. I'm having to account for that extra $185 a month in my after-filing spending. To me, that's a good chunk of money that I'm accounting for that I typically don't even have!

[jp2861]

Getting paid bi-weekly doesn't matter when filling out the I & J. It all comes out in the wash. For example, you may spend $600 on tires but you'll list $50 in your monthly expenses for them. It all averages out. Just because you have $XXX listed as your monthly expenses doesn't mean you have to or will be spending it all each month. You may have a dental bill one month and then none for the rest of the year. Still, divide it by 12 and include it as a monthly expense. I went to the dentist 2 weeks before the 341 and got a projected estimate of $1,200 worth of needed work. It went on my expenses and I brought the estimate with me. They probably won't ask for receipts unless you're claiming an unusual amount for something. If you think an amount is high it's a good idea to be able to justify it, even if you don't have receipts. It may be an expense you're projecting but possibly didn't encounter it last year. Your lawyer will know what the trustee will let fly and what won't. So, don't be afraid to highball your figures to start out, even if you end up a little in the negative. Your lawyer will tweak the numbers when the forms are completed. When it comes time to sign your petition just make sure you don't sign any blank forms. Know exactly what's in the petition (get a copy and review it) so you don't get blindsided at the 341.

If you still get confused about how much your expenses should be ask your lawyer what amount he will be using for the monthly income on the Schedule I. That should clear up the $185 issue you have.

After reading your initial post again you stated the lawyer told you that you qualify for a 7 and took your retainer. If expenses are going to be an issue then he should have addressed that before taking your money. You may want to schedule an appointment and get this nailed down ASAP.

[Teddy]

Hi - thanks again.

I think I am being overly worried & anxious! I tend to start reading too much online and it gets me thinking about things and worrying, etc. It got me in trouble with my last family doctor even

I am going to look at schedule I.

I see you had your 341 - did it go smooth?

[jp2861]

Yes, that's one problem with educating yourself. You tend to start looking for things to worry about. I read that 99% of these get discharged so I wouldn't worry too much. Just be truthful and you won't have any problems.

[Cali]

Here's a good online expenses calculator that helps you figure out what you may have left out of your own expenses list - http://www.goainc.com/fraley/calcula...alculator.html

Also go back through your check register and (if you kept them) your credit card bills for the last year. That helps find other items you may not think about - once a year fees like (if appropriate) property taxes, homeowner association fees, professional dues, etc. for example.

Thanks for posting this link.

[Teddy]

That's a great link, isn't it? It covered things I wasn't thinking of.

I printed out our check registers too so I can itemize everything, I hadn't thought of that.