Aargh! Sloppy attorney work here, too.

[DebtorDan]

Well, after FOREVER, our case was finally filed yesterday. It took our attorney 10 weeks to file, what he even called a simple no asset 7 case. I had initially met with him in July and by the time we had our fees saved up, etc. it was the middle of December. I met with him then and he said, no problem, it would take a week or 2 to file. 10 weeks later it is done, BUT...

Looking on PACER, I see that he has our current income incorrect on schedule I (my wife just got a 5% raise, and got her first check reflecting that last Friday), he has one of our closed bank accounts listed as open with $$ in it on filing day (it's exempted, but still), some of the deductions from my wife's income are figured screwy, some way high and some way low). It all nets about the same, but I worry the trustee will balk at the shoddy figuring.

Also on Schedule J, he has only one of our 2 mortgage payments listed, and then has our taxes and insurance on the schedule separately even though they are included in our payment. Again, it all nets about the same, if we take off the taxes and insurance and add in the 2d mortgage payment, so i'm not sure how much of a difference it'll make, but still worng is wrong to me. Oh, and he has her student loan payment listed under insurance.

My wife says, we pay him to take care of these things and not to try and micromanage the filing. That things will work out in the end. But, it drives me crazy.

Should i just wait until the trustee makes noise? Should I call the errors to our attorneys attention? Am I making more out of this than needs be? I just worry about the sloppy attention to detail and worry that it'll come back to bite us in the end.

What have others experiences been?

[HHM]

Did you read the document before it was filed?

[DebtorDan]

no. he had us sign blank copies of the paperwork before hand.

i know, a red flag warning i suppose, but he is a long-time bk attorney around here and a local judge (justice of the peace).

so we figured, he knows what he's doing. which, obviously has proven to be otherwise. live and learn, i guess. we just need things here to work out so we get our "fresh start."

[PaKettle]

Sounds just like my attorney. He also had us sign ahead of time, even though I asked him specifically to let me see the forms before submitting them and he said he would. He did not.

Then I found the mistakes on Pacer the night before our 341. (MY mistake for not having checked them earlier, I admit.)

I honestly think these sloppy attorneys - and there seem to be a LOT of them! - should have to give refunds back in penalties to their clients for every mistake made! That would make them pay more attention!

In this case, I guess all you can do is call him and make him amend it. That's what I would do. While some of the figures may not change your "profile", others will. And although it all might slide through with no one noticing or caring, on the off chance the Trustee DID take notice, it could be embarrassing and - worse?

If I were you I'd call the attorney, point out the mistakes and let him know you know he is screwing up and you aren't real happy about it. I'd say, "Did YOU fill these out or did some flunky do it?" ;) Either way, it makes him look bad, which is appropriate.

[DebtorDan]

Thanks Pa!

At least from hanging around here, I knew enough to check on Pacer. And from your experience and that of others, thought to check well before our 341. This forum has been extremely helpful through all of this and helped to cut down on the anxiety and feeling of going it alone. This just isn't the kind of stuff you bring up in casual conversation at work or around the neighborhood!

I think I will send him a letter and then follow up with a phone call, so he has the actual concerns in front of him in black and white when we speak.

[DivorceRuinedMe]

You definitely need to stay on top of this and get EVERYTHING fixed and amended ASAP. I say this b/c the exact same thing happened to me. I signed 2 copies of my petition, one with the mistakes and one without and the idiot paralegal filed the wrong one!

SO.....when I realized the wrong petition was filed when I checked on pacer it was too late and then all the amendments came one after another after another getting filed. .

Then, to make matters worse, my case was pulled for random audit. Then, the US trustee on my last day for objections decides to motion to extend my deadline ANOTHER 60 days b/c of all the amendments I filed after the case was pulled for audit (but before my atty had time to fix them b/c she was on a ski vacay - nice huh).

So, now I"m stuck in US trustee limbo hell with a material mistatement from the audit due to the income being wrong (just like yours) and my atty on vacay in UTAH now and the US trustee calling to talk to her (I found this out from the paralegal today).

So, don't leave it up to the idiot attorney and his staff. Keep on top of it and check pacer daily. It saved me from some issues I"m sure and got me ahead of the game so that when my 341 rolled around, I knew all the issues that the local trustee was going to ask and was prepared for her scutiny and attitude that it was all messed up and needed to be amended.

[325Falcon]

You signed a blank document!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

[lovescats1956]

I learned the hard way. My prior attorney had me file blank documents (in efforts to "save time") and he didn't factor in my student loan payment making it look like I had too much disposable income at the end of the month. Ended up in Chapter 13 with a payment that was WAY too high. My current attorney sent me copies of the schedules to look over before he filed the papers converting me to a chapter 7. NEVER (especially with attorneys at the helm!) sign anything blank. Most of these guys are either crooks or incompetent!

[Minnymouth]

I WOULD NEVER IN MY LIFETIME SIGN BLANK DOCUMENTS FOR ANY ATTORNEY!!!!!! OR ANYBODY ELSE FOR THAT MATTER!!!

KNOW WHAT YOUR SIGNING!!!!! KNOW WHAT IT SAYS ON THOSE DOCUMENTS!!! BECAUSE YOU ARE THE ONE SWEARING THEY ARE CORRECT!!!! NOT YOUR ATTORNEY!!!!

COVER YOUR BUTT!!!!!! It's nothing to the attorney if your case gets dismissed, etc...... he has already gotten paid. He gains nothing, looses nothing, by taking your case. Yeah, you pay him, but that's about all he makes, and some don't even want to do enough to earn that.....

I suggest you keep a close eye on THAT attorney......

[FreshLikeADaisy]

no. he had us sign blank copies of the paperwork before hand.

Dude, I know what's done is done, and you can't change the past, but honestly I gasped out loud when I read that. Please don't do that anymore.

And I think your idea to put your concerns in a *letter*, followed by a phone call, is terrific. Absolutely right. I think that if you want to get his attention, that's definitely the way to go. Be sure to send it certified, so if you have cause for a complaint in the future there's no question about what you sent him and when.

Good luck!!! (And don't do that to me again!!! )

[PaKettle]

I WOULD NEVER IN MY LIFETIME SIGN BLANK DOCUMENTS FOR ANY ATTORNEY!!!!!! OR ANYBODY ELSE FOR THAT MATTER!!!

KNOW WHAT YOUR SIGNING!!!!! KNOW WHAT IT SAYS ON THOSE DOCUMENTS!!! BECAUSE YOU ARE THE ONE SWEARING THEY ARE CORRECT!!!! NOT YOUR ATTORNEY!!!!

COVER YOUR BUTT!!!!!! It's nothing to the attorney if your case gets dismissed, etc...... he has already gotten paid. He gains nothing, looses nothing, by taking your case. Yeah, you pay him, but that's about all he makes, and some don't even want to do enough to earn that.....

I suggest you keep a close eye on THAT attorney......

I totally agree that one should never sign blank documents.
But on the other hand I'd like to explain why I did and why I think other people do:
We are paying attorneys for their advice!
So when he said, "This is how it is done - just sign here and I'll fill it out and send it in, but I'll send you a copy first", I felt like it was the right thing to do AS MY ATTORNEY ADVISED ME TO DO.

Would I do it again? No.

But when the expert attorney you hire to represent you tells you to do something, generally speaking you do it.

[BankruptPinoy]

Pa, or anyone else that is interested in law school, please PM me as I have some links and info that may be of use. Don't buy into the myths of law school and lawyers. It's not rocket science.

[Cali]

I WOULD NEVER IN MY LIFETIME SIGN BLANK DOCUMENTS FOR ANY ATTORNEY!!!!!! OR ANYBODY ELSE FOR THAT MATTER!!!

KNOW WHAT YOUR SIGNING!!!!! KNOW WHAT IT SAYS ON THOSE DOCUMENTS!!! BECAUSE YOU ARE THE ONE SWEARING THEY ARE CORRECT!!!! NOT YOUR ATTORNEY!!!!

COVER YOUR BUTT!!!!!!

ITA!!

[monkatom]

But does it matter about signing since the signature page is a seperate page from the information? My attorney sent me my package I made changes on the schedules and signed the additional pages. he made most of my chnages then filled electronically? So my question is, it does not necessarily matter what you sign does it as the attorney can submit what ever he wants??

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Monkatom, by law the atty is ONLY supposed to be submitting what YOU supply him, as YOU supply it, and without error. If there is error, it's supposed to be yours, not his. In addition, if you read that signature page it holds you 100% responsible for the contents of the unsigned pages.

THE ATTORNEY ***CANNOT*** SUBMIT WHATEVER HE WANTS.

THAT HE *DOES* IS A SEPARATE MATTER.

It is my personal feeling that while this may be a convenient practice for the atty, it is unethical to ask a client to sign blank docs, or even pre-final drafts of a document. When he files electronically -- and this is key -- he is ASSERTING, by submitting your electronic "signature" on the forms, that a TRUE AND EXACT COPY of what was submitted is actually available in paper form at his office, and can be made available to the court at any time. This is why, to me, it actually is unethical (and not just sloppy or incompetent) for an atty to have you sign a blank page, or draft copies that need correction, instead of waiting until everything is complete and having you sign the CORRECT form with the CORRECT date that includes CORRECT data.

I don't mean to be sharp, and it's NOT directed at you it just pisses me off because attys know what an electronic signature means and apparently don't care. (This is one reason why clerks love a pro se filer: we usually have everything complete and perfect when we file.) I tell you what, though: that practice would change so fast their heads would spin... if it were their PAYCHECKS and not your bk filing!

Sorry for the all caps, but I got on a roll... Good luck!!!