Pacer Update-Presumption of Abuse

[nojusticehere]

Well, I check pacer today and had some updates. The trusty has notified all creditors either via mail or electronically that I have filed. Now....of course they have sent me the "must take financial counselling course prior to discharge" and should receive that any day now.

Also on the notice to creditors there's a statement that says "Presumption of Abuse Does NOT arise". Does this mean that BK 7 has been accepted as 7 and will not have to converted to a 13.....? or do I have to wait to find this out at the 341 on March 17? My atty said the 7 may not be accepted because I was so close and may have to convert to a 13.

Keeping my fingers crossed>>>>

[newimges]

Also on the notice to creditors there's a statement that says "Presumption of Abuse Does NOT arise". Does this mean that BK 7 has been accepted as 7 and will not have to converted to a 13.....? or do I have to wait to find this out at the 341 on March 17? My atty said the 7 may not be accepted because I was so close and may have to convert to a 13.

It basically means that based on the information provided with your forms that presumption of abuse does not arise. It does not mean that your case connot be converted to a chapter 13 or dismissed.

Good luck!

[luckyone]

It is unusual for your case to be converted to a Chap 13 after getting as far as the creditors meeting, but it could happen.

[nojusticehere]

So what you all are saying is that all could be fine, and then "bam" at the 341 the trusty could say I don't qualify for the 7? Ugh!!!!! Now I'm really on pins and needles!!

[coma]

So what you all are saying is that all could be fine, and then "bam" at the 341 the trusty could say I don't qualify for the 7? Ugh!!!!! Now I'm really on pins and needles!!

The UST objected to our chapter 7 one week post-341 (our first 341). We were old law, so I'm not sure if that made a difference. You're not in the clear until that 61st day.

[jp2861]

The UST objected to our chapter 7 one week post-341 (our first 341). We were old law, so I'm not sure if that made a difference. You're not in the clear until that 61st day.

Technically, we're not in the clear until 12 months after discharge. Anytime within the first 12 months the case could be overturned and dismissed. Not sure if it ever happens though.

[lrprn]

Also on the notice to creditors there's a statement that says "Presumption of Abuse Does NOT arise". Does this mean that BK 7 has been accepted as 7 and will not have to converted to a 13.....?

It means your trustee believes that you qualify for Ch 7. Now you just have to wait to see what your creditors do for the 60 days after your 341. Good luck - you're doing just fine so far!

[nojusticehere]

I can't imagine the creditors really objecting. (My wishful thinking maybe, and hopeful!) All but two are unsecured. The two that are secured I'm reaffirming. Most are cc, a repo'd vehicle that I have a large deficiency on.etc. I have no assets, etc. I do have a question about the reaffirming of debts though. If a creditor is secured and doesn't object then do I need to reaffirm the debt, or did they just wash their hands of the account. I owe on furniture that I've had over a year now and wouldn't be worth it for the creditor to repo it. What will they do with used mattress's etc. So, if they don't object do I need to reaffirm? Should I? Do I need to?

[coma]

Technically, we're not in the clear until 12 months after discharge. Anytime within the first 12 months the case could be overturned and dismissed. Not sure if it ever happens though.

True, but unless you come into money or have committed some sort of fraud, it's most likely that you;re good after the 60th day.

[PaKettle]

True, but unless you come into money or have committed some sort of fraud, it's most likely that you're good after the 60th day.

As far as "coming into money", that's only certain ways of coming into money like lottery winnings, ineheritance or something, right? Exactly what is it? And it's only within 6 months isn't it?

Can someone explain exactly what kind of money can be taken and for how long after Discharge? And is there a limit on the amount?
For example, let's say I get $5k inheritance after being discharged in a Ch. 7 no asset case. Is that $5k taken?

As to the 12 months after discharge, what would cause a discharge to be overturned 11.x months after discharge? That would only be in an instance of fraud, right? Or is there any other reason that might happen? Has this ever happened to anyone using this board?

[lrprn]

I owe on furniture that I've had over a year now and wouldn't be worth it for the creditor to repo it. What will they do with used mattress's etc. So, if they don't object do I need to reaffirm? Should I? Do I need to?

Almost every lawyer will advise you to *not* reaffirm. The chances of your furniture actually filing an objection or going to court to lift the stay to repossess your used furniture is maybe 0.1%. The lender may threaten but typically with a very low resale value for used furniture, they are all bluff. Ride it out without reaffirming and see what happens.

[lrprn]

Can someone explain exactly what kind of money can be taken and for how long after Discharge? And is there a limit on the amount?

Here's a good post from a bk lawyer on a bankruptcy law blog that explains how inheritances work inside Ch 7 and Ch 13 bankruptcy - http://www.************************/...in-bankruptcy/

[nojusticehere]

Almost every lawyer will advise you to *not* reaffirm. The chances of your furniture actually filing an objection or going to court to lift the stay to repossess your used furniture is maybe 0.1%. The lender may threaten but typically with a very low resale value for used furniture, they are all bluff. Ride it out without reaffirming and see what happens.

I had told my atty that I wanted to reaffirm the furniture and car. Is it to late now? My 341 is Mar 17, what happens during this meeting with reaffirming?

[coma]

I had told my atty that I wanted to reaffirm the furniture and car. Is it to late now? My 341 is Mar 17, what happens during this meeting with reaffirming?

You can recind the reaffirmation anytime prior to discharge, but it needs to hppen prior to discharge, in the 60 day period.

[no_it_all]

So what you all are saying is that all could be fine, and then "bam" at the 341 the trusty could say I don't qualify for the 7? Ugh!!!!! Now I'm really on pins and needles!!

It depends on exactly <where> on the Means Test you arrived at <Presumption of Abuse Does Not Exist>..If it is on line 15 of the Means Test you are golden. You will never, ever be moved into a Chapter 13.