Embarrassed to ask..but I will!

[Dollar Bill]

I will admit that I have been a little less than honest when applying for credit about my income.

I have spoke to many attorneys, not at great length about it, and they say that creditors att can file a motion to dismiss based on FRAUD. They will look at the Tax Return for a certain year and compare the application.

Ok, so is this common?

Have many who file C7 been a bit less than honest?

Basically I want to know what if anything I can expect.

If it became an issue, I assume that if a certain debt was not dischargeable based on FRAUD, would the creditor still give a settlement amount, and allow payments.

Is there anything I can read up on regarding my situation.

I didn't really give it much attention because I thought it was....well a little common.

Please advise.

[toomuch]

I will admit that I have been a little less than honest when applying for credit about my income.

I have spoke to many attorneys, not at great length about it, and they say that creditors att can file a motion to dismiss based on FRAUD. They will look at the Tax Return for a certain year and compare the application.

Ok, so is this common?

Have many who file C7 been a bit less than honest?

Basically I want to know what if anything I can expect.

If it became an issue, I assume that if a certain debt was not dischargeable based on FRAUD, would the creditor still give a settlement amount, and allow payments.

Is there anything I can read up on regarding my situation.

I didn't really give it much attention because I thought it was....well a little common.

Please advise.

I have to admit I gave a projected income when applying, as I had started a business and really thought it would fly. It didn't. I have also wandered if this will be an issue for me. I will ask the attorney on Monday. Meanwhile, I am sure others here can advise both of us on this.
Good luck!

Toomuch

[Lindsay]

In one of the BK books I read, the author said that it had to be really bad before they would attempt to prove fraud. Like saying you make $100,000 when you make $30,000. I'm not sure if this is true, but on all of the boards I have read, I haven't seen any posts where this has happened and I'm sure many people lie on credit applications. I'm sure it could happen, but I think it is probably doesn't happen much. I think most of the credit granting process is based on credit scores instead of income. Most of our cards are 8-10 years old. Most of them started us out with $2000 - $3000 credit lines. One started us with $1000. Over the years, these creditors raised the limits to $15,000 - $20,000 lines of credit without ever asking us anything about our current income. We never asked them for a line of credit increase, I imagine it is automatic based on credit score/payment history. They wouldn't have known if we still even had a job or if we were unemployed when they would increase our limits constantly.

You should definitely be honest with your lawyer so he can cover all the bases and maybe some of the other members will know more about this. I'm sure the lawyers have heard this plenty of times and they're just giving all the "possible" scenerios that could happen. Just like they'll tell you about the possibility of a creditor objecting if you have some recent cash advances or luxury items.

Another point is that sometimes a tax return doesn't reflect all the income earned. This is common with mortgage companies and no doc loans especially if you are self employed and have alot of deductions which will bring your taxable income down. Some people actually have a business set up with the purpose of being able to deduct a loss on their regular income to pay less taxes. I've always been curious as to why they offer these types of mortgages.

Also many credit applications ask for the household income. So if you are living with parents/girlfriend/boyfriend/roommate, some people will write down the income of the entire household.

[keepmine]

If those cards are a few years old, it's likely that the application no longer exists.
Plus, as Lindsay says, as time goes on, you get automatic credit limit increases based on how you handle your account and not, on your income from an application.

[Flamingo]

I will admit that I have been a little less than honest when applying for credit about my income.

I have spoke to many attorneys, not at great length about it, and they say that creditors att can file a motion to dismiss based on FRAUD. They will look at the Tax Return for a certain year and compare the application.

Ok, so is this common?

Have many who file C7 been a bit less than honest?

Basically I want to know what if anything I can expect.

If it became an issue, I assume that if a certain debt was not dischargeable based on FRAUD, would the creditor still give a settlement amount, and allow payments.

Is there anything I can read up on regarding my situation.

I didn't really give it much attention because I thought it was....well a little common.

Please advise.

As always, when it comes to your situation, always protect yourself by asking your attorney. Old term called CYA ("Cover Your A**"). That way you get the right information for your particular financial situation that they are dealing with. Your post is a good one and goes to show that while lots of people get away with things, there are lots who don't either in credit applications, BK fraud and lying on job applications. Many people get fired when they are on the job several years when it is found they didn't have the degree that was listed on their resume. The same can happen in the financial world. Things from the past can come and bite you at the most unexpected time.

[Dollar Bill]

Thanks for all the responses. I will speak to my att in more detal. I have spoken to a few and they all sort of touched on the issue by asking..."well how did you get so much credit extended for these amounts and your income being this?" They don't say much afterward as if it were not the first time they have heard of this.

Again I appreciate all the responses. I prefer the one from "KEEPMINE." I hope that the app is no longer available. These lines of credit I had were pulled in '06.

[Flamingo]

If those cards are a few years old, it's likely that the application no longer exists.
Plus, as Lindsay says, as time goes on, you get automatic credit limit increases based on how you handle your account and not, on your income from an application.

Your application is kept as long as you hold that card. Therefore, if they want to review your app, they have it. It's a signed document (you state on there that the information you provide is true and correct to the best of your knowledge and belief) as to your applying for credit so it cannot be destroyed and is kept with your account record. Next time you have a chance, read the print on a credit app above your signature or what you agree to if you apply on line. Fraud is not a nice thing to get involved in in any situation. "Oh what a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive." Good old quote. Best thing to do is be honest and have no worries.

[keepmine]

Your application is kept as long as you hold that card. Therefore, if they want to review your app, they have it. It's a signed document (you state on there that the information you provide is true and correct to the best of your knowledge and belief) as to your applying for credit so it cannot be destroyed and is kept with your account record. Next time you have a chance, read the print on a credit app above your signature or what you agree to if you apply on line. Fraud is not a nice thing to get involved in in any situation. "Oh what a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive." Good old quote. Best thing to do is be honest and have no worries.

Actually, apps are routinely discarded after some period of time. I've seen more than afew lawsuits where the reponse for discovery requesting the application was, not available-had been destroyed.
Once an account is active, credit limit increases are done based on credit scoring models-not info on your application.

[epiphany]

I specifically asked my lawyer about this about two weeks ago. I have fudged on applications but not by an extreme amount. He told me not to worry about it and said that even if a creditor were to object on those grounds, the judge would most likely frown on that creditor and tell them they were SOL for not verifying the information.

So, while it could happen, it probably won't. Your lawyer's opinion, based on your specific situation, might be different so you should definitely ask.

EP

[PaKettle]

I'd guess that about 1/3 of the people fudge on their apps, it's just a matter of how much.
I'd also guess that if your fudging was a year or more ago, and wasn't more than 30% higher than what it really was, then they wouldn't try to prosecute you for fraud.

IF you had a recent card and you charged it way up and then filed against it, and if you had exaggerated your income like 50% more than you really make or something like that, THEN you MIGHT have a problem, especially if they Object to the discharge and take you to court on it.

But in general I think exaggerating on credit cards is pretty common and if it was common to prosecute for it, a lot of people would be in jail and they'd have to build a lot more jails.

So - although I am clearly not an attorney and I'm just guessing on this stuff based on things I've heard and read - I doubt you need to worry about it.

[Flamingo]

Actually, apps are routinely discarded after some period of time. I've seen more than afew lawsuits where the reponse for discovery requesting the application was, not available-had been destroyed.
Once an account is active, credit limit increases are done based on credit scoring models-not info on your application.

I guess it all depends on the creditor but my sister-in-law who works at a major credit card issuer advised me that apps are kept on file because they are a signed contract/agreement between the applicant and the company and that is a binding signature. Until the account is closed there is a binding contract. How good some of the creditors are in keeping records, who knows; but when there is a signed agreement, you can bet a copy or the original is somewhere, even saved electronically. The application, as you state, has nothing to do with future increases - it is an agreement that if credit is granted, the information you provided on that app is true and correct to obtain the credit card and account.

[BKcrazy]

I had cards that were opened close to 10 years ago. My income has changed and gone up and down since opening them and filing bk. They chose to raise my limits because I paid on time. What my income was years ago and what it is now = shouldn't they be checking into that? I can't see being held to something that old. I'm sure they keep records, but they would be somewhat responsible as well for not checking income. I didn't ask for those increases in credit. If they monitor my credit, then they should pay attention to income yearly as well.

[Flamingo]

I had cards that were opened close to 10 years ago. My income has changed and gone up and down since opening them and filing bk. They chose to raise my limits because I paid on time. What my income was years ago and what it is now = shouldn't they be checking into that? I can't see being held to something that old. I'm sure they keep records, but they would be somewhat responsible as well for not checking income. I didn't ask for those increases in credit. If they monitor my credit, then they should pay attention to income yearly as well.

If you have a copy of the credit application you originally submitted or if you paid attention to any fine print items in with your account bills or even stated on your bill, you will find that the company has covered itself as to your questions and credit increases. Your original signed application allowed them to do that as time went on. You will find they will pull your credit reports prior to advising you that they are increasing your limit. That is why it is important to know that since fraud was the initial subject of this thread as to listing false income on an application for a credit card, you are signing an agreement with the company that if they issue you credit, they are basing it on the information you provide them. They got ya if they want ya. You are also giving them other permissions if they open an account for you; that is why you have to read the fine print. Unfortunately, most people don't.

[BKcrazy]

I've read the fine print before. I was making a good amount before. But when you have income that drops how many people do you really think call and alert them? I have a feeling it's almost a non-issue these days. And thanks for insinuating that I DIDN'T EVER PAY ATTENTION

DOLLAR BILL-I'd just talk to your attorney. There are also people out there that got interest-only no doc loans. And I'm sure thanks to the help of loan officers, those weren't exactly correct. You are paying your attorney to deal with this headache.

[Flamingo]

I've read the fine print before. I was making a good amount before. But when you have income that drops how many people do you really think call and alert them? I have a feeling it's almost a non-issue these days. And thanks for insinuating that I DIDN'T EVER PAY ATTENTION
.

Oh, come on - where did I insinuate that? I didn't insinuate anything about you. My response was directed at whoever read my reply and not directed specifically at you. I stated "most people" and I am one of them - LOL! How many people actually read the fine print on a credit application when they sign it? How many keep a copy? I'm not among them...but I know all about the fine print and what is in it. Many people may not know what they sign and they wonder why they get in trouble or there are issues that come up afterwards and state, "well, geez, I never agreed to that," "why did my interest rate go to 13%" or "why are they raising my credit limit?" While many people may think an issue is small for them, it could be a huge one for someone else, especially as to fraud. That is one area where taking chances can be risky no matter what the amount.