In over my head for a while and worried

[jktrading]

I am in California, and I have been thinking about BK on and off for the past couple months. This last week more than ever. I sell on ebay and kept thinking I could start getting the balances down like I was starting to do a couple of years ago, but I must come to the realization that I cannot dig myself out of this hole that took years to dig. The interest is around $600 per month now.

I am just over 100K, that's right 100K in unsecured credit card debt between me and my DW (apx 50/50 on each of us). The most we owe one CC company is around 14K. I am caught up for 2 months ahead on all my payments and have a perfect paying history, but not being able to pay those minimum payments is right around the corner if I stop using my CC's to buy supplies to sell. Our yearly income is currently only 25K. It was around 35K a few years back when I applied for these CC's. I haven't applied in over a year for any more credit, and do not do cash advances. A couple months ago, I did a BT from one to the other for around 5K. Other than that, it's been a year or more since I did a BT, and never did any cash advances.

My worries come from the fact that this debt is so large, and how could anyone not say we are fraudulent, oweing that much? I know the writing was on the wall more than a year ago, but dog gone it, I somehow thought against logic, that we could turn it around. Now I use CC's for everything, and I'm sure I got in the bad habit of living a higher lifestyle than we should have been. I was/am ignorant, and must be a gluton for punishment.

Another worry is the fact that I buy all my supplies to sell on ebay through all these CC's. Are they going to scrutinize every single charge and ask me who/what/where stuff? I didn't mean to do fraud, because I genuinely believed I could pull out if I just worked harder, but for me, ebay is not the place it use to be with competition, increased fees, pretty much made my dream fall apart. ebay/paypal takes half my profit on a monthly basis. Plus, having 2 children these past couple of years, and me staying home, trying to sell, and take care of them without ignoring them, was very hard (in between naps and at night). I know I'm making excuses, and I know I should have known better. It was my freakin fault.,,arggg.

I ask the question about them scrutinizing my charges (I have thousands of them since '04, anywhere from $10 on to $400 or so mostly) because I have one company that I did about 12K with over the past 2-3 years that weren't for auction supplies, and were for a "personal" type of item that I in no way want to disclose to anyone. It's the only thing I'm "thinking" about not being honest about if questioned, but I really don't want to go there, because my honesty is all I think I have going for me with the huge debt.

Other than the fact that I let this debt get so out of control, I haven't been intentionally dishonest about anything. I think I may have put down 2K or 3K per year income more than my '04 taxes stated when applying (example: I said 37K, when it was 35K.) I didn't look like I should have on my taxes, and just estimated when I electronically filled out these apps. Hope that doesn't come back and bite me.

I have included this ebay selling income on my taxes with my DW's steady paycheck, but don't "officially" have an actual business per se. That worries me a little as well, as I'm not 100% sure that I needed to do any of that business starting paperwork? Again, I did place the income on my taxes from '04 and on.

In the last couple weeks I made a large purchase of a bed we needed/wanted for 2K. Of course, we didn't need such an expensive one, but I have this back issue (I know, poor me). I was thinking about trying to wait it out for 6 months before filing BK for the bed purchase, and the last of the "personal" purchases that I explained above are now over. I was thinking about saying that one company was for auction supplies if asked, but that's the only company that I do "steady" business with. All my other auction supplies are different people. So, that will stick out if they scrutinize all the CC charges because of that. I get this knot in the middle of my chest when thinking about having to be dishonest, and getting caught. I'm the one who makes it a point to be as honest as possible in my life, even when it comes to money. I surely can't disclose what it is really.

So, here I am, almost wishing I didn't research this BK info, but there is simply no way that I'm getting out of this, unless a have a long lost relative that passes away and leaves me some money. Sorry for the long post, and I hope some of you reply on whether I should file now at about 102K debt, or wait for the bed/other purchase to age some (3 months/6months) so they won't scrutinize as much? I'm going to need to get a weekend job (weekdays I am watching my children while DW goes to work), in order to pay bills since I was an idiot and let our lifestyle evolve to where it shouldn't be right now. DH is going to nursing school after getting AA at college, but is years away. If I only did all this thinking earlier, doooh. Help me I'm drowning and have this pain in my chest!

[Beeheery]

Balance transfers are considered cash advances. I didn't think so but that is what one lawyer told me. I did a balance transfer from one cc to another and they said they are one in the same. I did mine in july 07 and will probably wait till july 08 to file if I am not sued before then.

[spongenotbob]

I am in California, and I have been thinking about BK on and off for the past couple months. This last week more than ever. I sell on ebay and kept thinking I could start getting the balances down like I was starting to do a couple of years ago, but I must come to the realization that I cannot dig myself out of this hole that took years to dig. The interest is around $600 per month now.

I am just over 100K, that's right 100K in unsecured credit card debt between me and my DW (apx 50/50 on each of us). The most we owe one CC company is around 14K. I am caught up for 2 months ahead on all my payments and have a perfect paying history, but not being able to pay those minimum payments is right around the corner if I stop using my CC's to buy supplies to sell. Our yearly income is currently only 25K. It was around 35K a few years back when I applied for these CC's. I haven't applied in over a year for any more credit, and do not do cash advances. A couple months ago, I did a BT from one to the other for around 5K. Other than that, it's been a year or more since I did a BT, and never did any cash advances.

My worries come from the fact that this debt is so large, and how could anyone not say we are fraudulent, oweing that much? I know the writing was on the wall more than a year ago, but dog gone it, I somehow thought against logic, that we could turn it around. Now I use CC's for everything, and I'm sure I got in the bad habit of living a higher lifestyle than we should have been. I was/am ignorant, and must be a gluton for punishment.

Another worry is the fact that I buy all my supplies to sell on ebay through all these CC's. Are they going to scrutinize every single charge and ask me who/what/where stuff? I didn't mean to do fraud, because I genuinely believed I could pull out if I just worked harder, but for me, ebay is not the place it use to be with competition, increased fees, pretty much made my dream fall apart. ebay/paypal takes half my profit on a monthly basis. Plus, having 2 children these past couple of years, and me staying home, trying to sell, and take care of them without ignoring them, was very hard (in between naps and at night). I know I'm making excuses, and I know I should have known better. It was my freakin fault.,,arggg.

I ask the question about them scrutinizing my charges (I have thousands of them since '04, anywhere from $10 on to $400 or so mostly) because I have one company that I did about 12K with over the past 2-3 years that weren't for auction supplies, and were for a "personal" type of item that I in no way want to disclose to anyone. It's the only thing I'm "thinking" about not being honest about if questioned, but I really don't want to go there, because my honesty is all I think I have going for me with the huge debt.

Other than the fact that I let this debt get so out of control, I haven't been intentionally dishonest about anything. I think I may have put down 2K or 3K per year income more than my '04 taxes stated when applying (example: I said 37K, when it was 35K.) I didn't look like I should have on my taxes, and just estimated when I electronically filled out these apps. Hope that doesn't come back and bite me.

I have included this ebay selling income on my taxes with my DW's steady paycheck, but don't "officially" have an actual business per se. That worries me a little as well, as I'm not 100% sure that I needed to do any of that business starting paperwork? Again, I did place the income on my taxes from '04 and on.

In the last couple weeks I made a large purchase of a bed we needed/wanted for 2K. Of course, we didn't need such an expensive one, but I have this back issue (I know, poor me). I was thinking about trying to wait it out for 6 months before filing BK for the bed purchase, and the last of the "personal" purchases that I explained above are now over. I was thinking about saying that one company was for auction supplies if asked, but that's the only company that I do "steady" business with. All my other auction supplies are different people. So, that will stick out if they scrutinize all the CC charges because of that. I get this knot in the middle of my chest when thinking about having to be dishonest, and getting caught. I'm the one who makes it a point to be as honest as possible in my life, even when it comes to money. I surely can't disclose what it is really.

So, here I am, almost wishing I didn't research this BK info, but there is simply no way that I'm getting out of this, unless a have a long lost relative that passes away and leaves me some money. Sorry for the long post, and I hope some of you reply on whether I should file now at about 102K debt, or wait for the bed/other purchase to age some (3 months/6months) so they won't scrutinize as much? I'm going to need to get a weekend job (weekdays I am watching my children while DW goes to work), in order to pay bills since I was an idiot and let our lifestyle evolve to where it shouldn't be right now. DH is going to nursing school after getting AA at college, but is years away. If I only did all this thinking earlier, doooh. Help me I'm drowning and have this pain in my chest!

Hi JK,

I'm glad you found this board. I posted you a reponse on the other board (creditboards..) but unfortunately it's being "reviewed" and I didn't save it off.

The short story is:

a) Your story is not that unusual. You don't need to be terribly worried; just prepared. The debt/income ratio unfortunately means there's basically no chance for you to "dig out" of this by yourself - no matter what anyone over there tells you.

b) The good news is you're very probably an excellent candidate for BK7 - and the really good news is that BK7 really does give you a "fresh start" if you take it very carefully and seriously.

c) Effective immediately, at least until you've done your research, do NOT do any BALANCE TRANSFERS or ASSET SALES / TRANSFERS of any kind.

I wish I had the whole post from the other place but I suppose it will be up in a while. The key is BKforum is a very supportive and helpful community. The other board is just nasty and hostile to anyone considering BK.

Take your time, do your research (read EVERYTHING), be very careful and selective picking an attorney, and you will be just fine!

Best regards,
snb

[jktrading]

Hi JK,

I'm glad you found this board. I posted you a reponse on the other board (creditboards..) but unfortunately it's being "reviewed" and I didn't save it off.

The short story is:

a) Your story is not that unusual. You don't need to be terribly worried; just prepared. The debt/income ratio unfortunately means there's basically no chance for you to "dig out" of this by yourself - no matter what anyone over there tells you.

b) The good news is you're very probably an excellent candidate for BK7 - and the really good news is that BK7 really does give you a "fresh start" if you take it very carefully and seriously.

c) Effective immediately, at least until you've done your research, do NOT do any BALANCE TRANSFERS or ASSET SALES / TRANSFERS of any kind.

I wish I had the whole post from the other place but I suppose it will be up in a while. The key is BKforum is a very supportive and helpful community. The other board is just nasty and hostile to anyone considering BK.

Take your time, do your research (read EVERYTHING), be very careful and selective picking an attorney, and you will be just fine!

Best regards,
snb

Thanks spongenotbob. The only thing I'm worried about, well, really, really worried about anyway, is the 12K these past few years (since '05) on my "personal" items. I have 1000's of charges for my business, and can't imagine they would narrow in on it unless they study them all in extreme detail. If it comes up though, I just know I won't be able to lie.

You can bet I will tell my attorney, and see what he thinks because I'm concerned about it big time. If people can take cash advances and wait more than 6 months, and be ok when filing, why should my charges for "personal" items be an issue? I mean, can't you use cash for anything and everthing pretty much? Isn't it the same thing? As long as I didn't make the charge knowing that I wasn't paying it back, there no fraud, right? Even if it hypothetically could be a less than legal item?

Just checked this thread before going to bed. Had to reply, thanks again for the encouragement. Today/yesterday was terrible, since I was thinking about it so much. Anyhow, nighty, night.

[spongenotbob]

Thanks spongenotbob. The only thing I'm worried about, well, really, really worried about anyway, is the 12K these past few years (since '05) on my "personal" items. I have 1000's of charges for my business, and can't imagine they would narrow in on it unless they study them all in extreme detail. If it comes up though, I just know I won't be able to lie.

You can bet I will tell my attorney, and see what he thinks because I'm concerned about it big time. If people can take cash advances and wait more than 6 months, and be ok when filing, why should my charges for "personal" items be an issue? I mean, can't you use cash for anything and everthing pretty much? Isn't it the same thing? As long as I didn't make the charge knowing that I wasn't paying it back, there no fraud, right?

Just checked this thread before going to bed. Nighty, night.

Hi JK,

It doesn't sound like fraud... In the very worst scenario, you might have to settle with the CC for /only that part of the debt which was incurred during the lookback period/ only on that one card.

The lookback period used to be 60-90 days (old law); not sure what it is new law. Either way I don't think it will be a showstopper for you. You do need to be careful with handling the business side of this (that's a bit outside my scope of knowledge) but that what a good attorney is for

Do get a copy of Nolo's "How to file for chapter 7 BK", read this board a lot, get a PACER account, etc. You're gonna be fine.

Take care,
snb

[spongenotbob]

Hi JK,

It's not fraud. In the very worst scenario, you might have to settle with the CC for /only that part of the debt which was incurred during the lookback period/ only on that one card.

The lookback period used to be 60-90 days (old law); not sure what it is new law. Either way I don't think it will be a showstopper for you. You do need to be careful with handling the business side of this (that's a bit outside my scope of knowledge) but that what a good attorney is for

Do get a copy of Nolo's "How to file for chapter 7 BK", read this board a lot, get a PACER account, etc. You're gonna be fine.

Take care,
snb

By the way I just reread your post. If it's a SINGLE item for $12K... that may get some scrutiny... depending on (a) when you bought it, and (b) what it is. For some reason I thought it was a whole bunch of small items that added up to $12K.

Anyway, the usual disclaimer - I am NOT an attorney. Definitely consult an actual attorney for actual advice.

Good luck,
snb

[danaf]

what is wrong with making asset sales?

[jktrading]

By the way I just reread your post. If it's a SINGLE item for $12K... that may get some scrutiny... depending on (a) when you bought it, and (b) what it is. For some reason I thought it was a whole bunch of small items that added up to $12K.

Anyway, the usual disclaimer - I am NOT an attorney. Definitely consult an actual attorney for actual advice.

Good luck,
snb

It was a bunch of charges from '05 to just 2 weeks ago. Charges vary from mid 100.00 to mid 300.00, that added up to 12.6K over 3 years. It's the same type of charges that I do for my ebay business (1000's of them) except it's with 1 company, when all of my other charges are with all different people/companies. Also, it was spread over a few CC's, not just one.

So, yes it was a bunch of charges, you were right, and I was tired when typing. BTW, IF this is a less than legal item and I admit to it, won't whomever hold me responsible, maybe call Five-O and have them investigate, stuff like that? Thanks again.

[ssdsco]

It was a bunch of charges from '05 to just 2 weeks ago. Charges vary from mid 100.00 to mid 300.00, that added up to 12.6K over 3 years. It's the same type of charges that I do for my ebay business (1000's of them) except it's with 1 company, when all of my other charges are with all different people/companies. Also, it was spread over a few CC's, not just one.

So, yes it was a bunch of charges, you were right, and I was tired when typing. BTW, IF this is a less than legal item and I admit to it, won't whomever hold me responsible, maybe call Five-O and have them investigate, stuff like that? Thanks again.

If you've done something "less than legal" you should see an attorney to discuss. Some of your other assumptions have been wrong so maybe this is no big deal in terms of bankruptcy.

You sure have peaked my curiousity with what the "personal items" are.

Good luck !!

[spongenotbob]

If you've done something "less than legal" you should see an attorney to discuss. Some of your other assumptions have been wrong so maybe this is no big deal in terms of bankruptcy.
Good luck !!

I think this might fall into the "don't ask, don't tell" category $12K sounds like a lot of Viagra though... LOL...

Anyway I wouldn't raise the issue with the court. Probably want to mention it to your attorney, but if he says forget about it, then forget about it.... your main fear is that the CC's raise an objection on this basis but it really seems like a stretch.

Curious minds DO want to know...

Cheers,
snb

[Lindsay]

JK, we got into serious financial trouble due to eBay too. For alot of years, eBay was great for us. I was a powerseller on eBay for 9 years with 8500 positive feedbacks. I always thought I could pull out of the situation too. I thought if I made my listings better, listed more items, got in new products that things would pick up and I'd be able to get out of debt. In summer of 2006 when eBay raised the store fees by 500% and made disastrous changes to their search, my sales fell to an alarming low. I went from an average of $3500 a month in sales to less than $1000. I changed nothing in my business, it was eBay putting the strangle on the search results and that killed my sales. Despite the lower sales, my eBay bill actually went up! I wonder how many people ended up bankrupt due to eBay.

That same fall I went back to college full time. I knew that I wasn't really qualified for anything other than a minimum wage job or eBay and I couldn't live like that anymore. I figured that I would go to college, get good grades and try to get a decent job to pay off the mountain of debt that I had accumulated over the past 8 years. Unfortunately things blew up quickly after that. Several creditors raised our interest to 30% and the minimum payments jumped on alot of cards making it very difficult to keep up. College was hard for me being a 38 year old freshman. I had to put in alot of hours of studying, but I managed to get mostly A's. I'm getting my first degree this May and we're going to see a bankruptcy lawyer this week.

I realized that a good job wasn't going to help at all with the big debt we had. When I put everything on paper, it was huge and hopeless. However, I haven't charged anything in 7 months now and we're managing. I am scared that something big will happen like the furnace will break or one of the dogs will need surgery, but I guess I'll cross that bridge when it happens.

The "personal" items sound like medication to me. I know alot of people have purchased medication online. Its hard when you don't have a doctor and you have pain or illness. I don't think that the trustee scrutinizes the actual transactions himself. I think it would only be if the credit card objected and the worst scenerio would probably be that you'd have to settle with them.

[jktrading]

JK, we got into serious financial trouble due to eBay too. For alot of years, eBay was great for us. I was a powerseller on eBay for 9 years with 8500 positive feedbacks. I always thought I could pull out of the situation too. I thought if I made my listings better, listed more items, got in new products that things would pick up and I'd be able to get out of debt. In summer of 2006 when eBay raised the store fees by 500% and made disastrous changes to their search, my sales fell to an alarming low. I went from an average of $3500 a month in sales to less than $1000. I changed nothing in my business, it was eBay putting the strangle on the search results and that killed my sales. Despite the lower sales, my eBay bill actually went up! I wonder how many people ended up bankrupt due to eBay.

That same fall I went back to college full time. I knew that I wasn't really qualified for anything other than a minimum wage job or eBay and I couldn't live like that anymore. I figured that I would go to college, get good grades and try to get a decent job to pay off the mountain of debt that I had accumulated over the past 8 years. Unfortunately things blew up quickly after that. Several creditors raised our interest to 30% and the minimum payments jumped on alot of cards making it very difficult to keep up. College was hard for me being a 38 year old freshman. I had to put in alot of hours of studying, but I managed to get mostly A's. I'm getting my first degree this May and we're going to see a bankruptcy lawyer this week.

I realized that a good job wasn't going to help at all with the big debt we had. When I put everything on paper, it was huge and hopeless. However, I haven't charged anything in 7 months now and we're managing. I am scared that something big will happen like the furnace will break or one of the dogs will need surgery, but I guess I'll cross that bridge when it happens.

The "personal" items sound like medication to me. I know alot of people have purchased medication online. Its hard when you don't have a doctor and you have pain or illness. I don't think that the trustee scrutinizes the actual transactions himself. I think it would only be if the credit card objected and the worst scenerio would probably be that you'd have to settle with them.

Hi Lindsay, yes ebay is so frustrating to me now. It started off where I only had to work harder to make more of a buck there, now it seems as if I am just grinding metal so to speak, going nowhere, a tiny profit margin. How frustrating looking for items to sell, knowing that ebay/paypal is taking half my profit in fees.

You seem to be where I might be a year from now (or sooner). My dw is going to college too, and the future looks bright. You're doing such a great job of pulling yourself together through this and you should be proud of yourself for hanging in there, congratulations.

You did better than me for 8 years, mine was about 4 years to self implosion. I was very compulsive with spending, and even though I complain about ebay, I have no one to blame but myself for this mess.

Thank you so much for your kind words. I have an excellent family (wife, 2 new children), a nice rental house (no creditor can touch) that is extremely comfortable, and should really stop stressing so much. I must remember my blessings, and remember that things could be a lot worse.

Ok, enough sentimental stuff (sniffle, sniffle).