Question re Pacer and amending petition

[PaKettle]

As you may recall, during my 341 I had to inform the Trustee that I did in fact have a business a year ago, though I made almost no money with it. (My attorney had forgotten to list it.) I'm almost positive the trustee said that we'd need to change the petition to reflect my business even though he seemed to indicate it wasn't really going to matter, based on my testimony that I never made any money to speak of with it and have no assets from it.

I called my attorney about what we need to do and when we need to do it but of course he is not getting back to me.

So anyway, I checked Pacer today and found this:
Pending Statuses

Status Begin
Date Time in
Status # Status Set By
Awaiting Discharge
12/12/2007
7 days 8 Meeting of Creditors Held and Concluded with No Asset Report

So, the thing is, it says nothing about awaiting documents, as far as I could see. Is there another place I need to check, or would it appear here on the main Query page as above?

Hopefully my attorney will get back to me in the next couple days, but I was just wondering what you think? Is it possible the Trustee does NOT need to see the amended petition, that he's just blowing it off based on the fact I told him that I made no money with my former business, under oath?

I just assumed it would state on pacer: "Awaiting revision of petition" or something of that nature...

Please advise.

Many thanks, as usual.

[HHM]

I don't think it flags when the trustee requests an amendment, or additional docs.

The trustee must issue some type of report after the first 341 meeting.

So, if you need to get amendments done, or provide docs, you better get to it or the next thing you will see on PACER is a motion to dismiss

[PaKettle]

Thanks HHM.
I will INSIST my attorney call me back, tomorrow! I have tried reaching him 3 times over the past 3 days. I try to be patient and not be bothersome, but now I'm getting p.o.'d!

[ohwell]

Pa, does your atty have an email you can correspond with? Our atty did email with us, he would get back to us in less than 24 hours(I don't think he sleeps). We never had to call him with all our questions and other issues during/after we filed. Maybe you could suggest that? I don't recall how we started corresponding with our atty that way, but it helped us ALOT.(the man earned his retainer for sure!!!)

I don't think I ever saw on PACER anything pending(meaning waiting for you hand in your homework type of thing from the trustee). The courts just file what has been done, not what you need to get done. I did notice people getting dismissed for not having their certificates filed, amendments to schedules though..

I am wanting to kick your atty's ass for you....

[PaKettle]

Pa, does your atty have an email you can correspond with? Our atty did email with us, he would get back to us in less than 24 hours(I don't think he sleeps). We never had to call him with all our questions and other issues during/after we filed. Maybe you could suggest that? I don't recall how we started corresponding with our atty that way, but it helped us ALOT.(the man earned his retainer for sure!!!)

I don't think I ever saw on PACER anything pending(meaning waiting for you hand in your homework type of thing from the trustee). The courts just file what has been done, not what you need to get done. I did notice people getting dismissed for not having their certificates filed, amendments to schedules though..

I am wanting to kick your atty's ass for you....

Thanks for your support ohwell, I am trying to manage my anger issues, but yeah, this attorney is starting to p*** me off! First he screws up my petition and now he isn't around to fix it and leaving me hanging!

I will call him 10 times tomorrow if I have to...

No, he does not have email, I asked. And when I call he's "not in".

Like I say, I WILL get ahold of him tomorrow, or drive him nuts, trying!

Pa

[ohwell]

Good Luck Pa, I hope you get him off his arse and earn the money you have paid him!

I am sure it will all work out. Just to let you know, our atty had to do an amendment of creditors(we got 2 new medical bills - one was from service from a year ago!!!), it took almost 3 weeks to get them filed(his former associate handles them I was informed by him when I wondered what the hell was up after 2 weeks have gone by including Thanksgiving, and she had an ill family member he told me, I didn't care I needed a job to get done... sorry but it was taking too long for my taste, those creditors, even though they are measly, have another 3 weeks to file objections...grrrr.....). I wasn't aware of how long this was taking, until I got a PACER acct and stated "I have a PACER acct, and I noticed that the amendment to creditors have not been done... if this isn't being done electronically will this show up on PACER still? Just wanting to know how I will see that this has been done..."

Things got filed within 3 days of us bugging him, he apologized for the delay.

[aachudneymiles]

my trustee ask for an amendment and it did not reflect pacer ..but i have 10 days to do so.. i forgot to list a car in my schedule b and he wants my homestead deed

[PaKettle]

Two issues I had at my 341:
1) the business my attorney did not include
2) a car that I sold and transferred within the last year.
I brought both of these up at the 341.
Is there a place on the petition for the car sale, or is this something they just ask at the meeting? If so, I can't see why my attorney didn't put it on the petition!

So in addition to the business thing, do I need to provide bill of sale and other info regarding my sale and transfer of the car?

Is there a standard time this amendment needs to be done by? My 341 was over a week ago already, and this attorney has not even spoken to me once about this! I'm trying to reach him today but I do have to work the next 4 days, too, so this is getting scary. If the requirement was "within 10 days" I could be in big trouble here! I called the attorney yesterday and he never returned my call, didn't return it today so far, and I called back, they said he's in court, and gets out around the time I have to go into work!

If this guy doesn't get this petition amended in time, and has not contacted me at all after the 341 about doing it, not even in response to my calls, wouldn't this be considered malpractice? And if it is malpractice, can I sue for damages?

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Form 7 (Statement of Financial Affairs) asks you detailed questions about property that was transferred in the last year (might be two years; I'm not looking directly at it) and that is where you would list the car sale.

Also, my trustee asked specifically in his mondo list of [every document I have ever owned outside of a tootsie roll wrapper] for details on any motor vehicle that was bought or sold in the last year. Now, he's not the average trustee, but I mention it because he was *specifically* looking for exactly the info you mention.

Add me to the list of people who want to spank your attorney's fanny (and not in an enjoyable way ) -- good luck!!!

P.S. The next message you leave at the attorney's office might include a statement to the effect that you would regret it if you had to contact the trustee directly, but if the atty doesn't return your call within the next 12 hours you will be forced to do so, as you cannot afford to have your case needlessly dismissed for failure to submit the required amendations within the timeline given by the trustee. And then contact the trustee directly, if you have to, and be sure you explain why you had no choice. Attorneys hate it when you contact the trustee directly, but trustees are not going to like having to do your attorney's work for him, either. Seems to me you'll get a response from the atty, but if not, either way you have your butt covered for right now, and probably your trustee's sympathy.

[aachudneymiles]

fresh is right statement of affairs.
you can do the amendment yourself its toooo easy and free for what your doing. I know my trustee gave me a piece of paper that said what he needed and that i had 10 days to do so..

and your lawyer sucks you should tell him that after your done with him because he didnt go to court with you ? then didnt put the info on the forms. but then again your the one liable because you signed it.

Two issues I had at my 341:
1) the business my attorney did not include
2) a car that I sold and transferred within the last year.
I brought both of these up at the 341.
Is there a place on the petition for the car sale, or is this something they just ask at the meeting? If so, I can't see why my attorney didn't put it on the petition!

So in addition to the business thing, do I need to provide bill of sale and other info regarding my sale and transfer of the car?

Is there a standard time this amendment needs to be done by? My 341 was over a week ago already, and this attorney has not even spoken to me once about this! I'm trying to reach him today but I do have to work the next 4 days, too, so this is getting scary. If the requirement was "within 10 days" I could be in big trouble here! I called the attorney yesterday and he never returned my call, didn't return it today so far, and I called back, they said he's in court, and gets out around the time I have to go into work!

If this guy doesn't get this petition amended in time, and has not contacted me at all after the 341 about doing it, not even in response to my calls, wouldn't this be considered malpractice? And if it is malpractice, can I sue for damages?

[PaKettle]

fresh is right statement of affairs.
you can do the amendment yourself its toooo easy and free for what your doing. I know my trustee gave me a piece of paper that said what he needed and that i had 10 days to do so..

and your lawyer sucks you should tell him that after your done with him because he didnt go to court with you ? then didnt put the info on the forms. but then again your the one liable because you signed it.

I called my attorney twice today, still did not get a return call. (got his office person, and told her I have called a number of times and REALLY need to hear from him!) So, I just called him right now, at 9pm and left a message on his machine that if he does not call me by tomorrow at 1pm, I will call the Trustee and talk to him about it.

Shouldn't I have gotten something in the way of paperwork stating that I needed to amend within x amount of days? I got no paperwork. Or is it that the paperwork would ONLY go to the attorney?

Is it possible the trustee just decided not to ask for the amendment, that my testimony was enough? I honestly do not recall him stating that he needed an amendment filed, but I sorta kinda think he did, and wouldn't he have, based on my not putting the business in there, even though the business was over a year ago?

So I am not SURE we need to file an amendment. But since my attorney was not there, and I don't even have a card or number of the substitute attorney who was there, I have no idea what is going on! Admittedly I should have listened closer to what the trustee said but I had been through the mill, nerve-wise, at that point. That's WHY MY attorney should have been there, not some substitute!

When this is all over I definitely plan to tell my attorney he sucks and he will NOT be getting any recommendations from me. What a sloppy and uncommunicative bastard he turned out to be! And I interviewed 6 before choosing him! I would probably have been better off with ANY of the other 5!

Man, I just cannot believe how my bad luck with attorneys continues! (I had a terrible one for my accident case a couple years ago, too!) (Also based on a recommendation from someone!)

:-(

[FreshLikeADaisy]

I called my attorney twice today, still did not get a return call. (got his office person, and told her I have called a number of times and REALLY need to hear from him!) So, I just called him right now, at 9pm and left a message on his machine that if he does not call me by tomorrow at 1pm, I will call the Trustee and talk to him about it.

Shouldn't I have gotten something in the way of paperwork stating that I needed to amend within x amount of days? I got no paperwork. Or is it that the paperwork would ONLY go to the attorney?

Good! You should definitely hear from one or the other. Be sure to explain to the trustee's staff exactly why you are calling him directly; don't leave them with the impression you COULD have gone to your attorney. Make it absolutely clear that your attorney has been unreachable since the 341 and you are trying to ensure that you get the requested amendments in within the timeframe set forth by the trustee, and it is to that end you are calling.

As for paperwork, no, not necessarily. Again, you are [somewhat] represented by an attorney, and the trustee may have assumed your attorney would have the professional capacity to take note of the instructions. If there was anything in writing, he would definitely send it to your attorney's office or hand it to him personally; he would not give it to you.

You know, when I get all cranked up and anxious I can't remember clearly either, so to me, when you say you "kinda sorta remember" that's FreshLikeADaisy code for "oh hell yeah he did!" You may call up there only to have him communicate that there's nothing you need to amend, but from everything you have written there's definitely something. Also, your trustee's timeframe is not set in stone; you can ask him for an extension if you absolutely need one. Just make it utterly clear that your attorney has made himself COMPLETELY unavailable (paint a picture: tell him how many times you have called and even that you left a msg you were going to call the trustee directly) and thus you need the extension as you will be completing the amendations yourself.

You are in a very difficult position right now in that you are not covered by your attorney at all, and yet you do not even have the benefits/rights of going pro se, such as contacting the trustee directly as needed, so you're walking a rough road. I would wait on filing a complaint on the attorney until the bk case is closed, but then I would fire with both barrels. The waiting ensures that all his misdeeds are complete and on the record and so you're giving the whole story. If you google something like "florida attorney discipline complaint" (put your own state, obviously) you should get all sorts of hits, and in the first five you will probably find the exact page where you need to go for filing a complaint against your attorney. You are definitely looking for something involving "Rules of Professional Conduct" so if you see that on a site you're headed in the right direction. I know there's an ABA site with the physical addresses, but by Googling I got the whole enchilada.

Good luck!!! I agree with aachudneymiles, the forms are too easy for you to fret about doing them, and your attorney was supposed to have done them using the info YOU gave him anyway. Don't sweat it. If you end up having to do them yourself, even handwritten, it will be okay.

[PaKettle]

Good! You should definitely hear from one or the other. Be sure to explain to the trustee's staff exactly why you are calling him directly; don't leave them with the impression you COULD have gone to your attorney. Make it absolutely clear that your attorney has been unreachable since the 341 and you are trying to ensure that you get the requested amendments in within the timeframe set forth by the trustee, and it is to that end you are calling.


[snip]
Good luck!!! I agree with aachudneymiles, the forms are too easy for you to fret about doing them, and your attorney was supposed to have done them using the info YOU gave him anyway. Don't sweat it. If you end up having to do them yourself, even handwritten, it will be okay.

Thanks for your support, Fresh. (and others too)

I called my attorney AGAIN this morning and told the secretary "I NEED to speak to him before I go into work today. Tell him to call me before 1pm please". So I waited, and waited. She had told me he was IN the office, so there was no excuse for his not calling me!

I got angrier and angrier as I sat waiting. I had things I wanted to do "out in the world" but since I don't use a cell phone, except for emergencies and it isn't always reliable, I didn't want to risk missing his call, so I had to stay home all morning. This made me even angrier.

Finally at 1pm I called him again. She said he was on the other line. I said I'd hold.

He came on the line, still sounding very sick, and he said this was the first day he'd been back to work. Although I do believe he is sick, either he or his secretary is lying, because she has been telling me all week, "He's at court", "He's in a meeting", etc...

Anyway, he said that he read the notes from the trustee and there was little to do. Good books of my business were not required, since it was so small, all I needed to do was answer some questions about it and sign some forms.

So, all is well, he said there was no deadline, and it is really a very minor thing.

HOWEVER, my not KNOWING, was not a minor thing! I did not KNOW it was minor, and I was desperately trying to FIND OUT from him that it was a minor thing, for a week!

I don't care how sick he was, there is NO EXCUSE for not leaving his client a message saying, "Everything is okay, all we have to do is fill out a couple forms, you don't need accounting books, all you have to do is answer some questions and sign a form, and we have plenty of time to get it done. We'll meet next week."

BUT, Nooooooo-ooooo! He had to leave me all stressed out and in the dark about it, simply because it was just too difficult for him to pick up the dang phone and leave me a 30 second message in answer to my many phone calls begging him to call me!

Again, let me say, if there are any attorneys reading this board: This is no way to treat one's clients!

People need to have their fears allayed. I'm not saying you have to coddle them at every step or put up with tons of stupid questions. But in a case like mine, above, the professional thing to do is to return my call and let me KNOW what the situation is!

Attorneys like this don't deserve recommendations, and I certainly will not be giving this guy any. In fact, I will probably go out of my way to let people know, "Do NOT hire this guy!"

Well, all's well that ends well, and at least now, FINALLY, I know that there is nothing to worry about. But I think I was justified in worrying and most anyone in my situation would have been worried. And the professional thing for my attorney to do was to call me after my first call or two and just inform me what the deal was.

Thanks for all who answered my posts on this!

Attorneys: ARRRGGGGHHHHH!

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Pa, I'm really glad he FINALLY got back to you, but definitely keep on his ass about *what* forms, *when* will I see them, etc. There's no deadline, but depending on the trustee and the docs needed, the trustee may not be able to issue his final report needed for discharge and eventually closure of your case.

Also, attorneys are supposed to have procedures in place to cover any unavailability. They get a lot of latitude (especially single attorney offices) and that coverage may be slipshod, but they are supposed to have at least that much, and I saw a good number of admonishments and worse handed to lawyers who left their clients in the lurch. (I was looking at a bunch of attorney disciplinary actions in Minnesota and got caught up in reading them all.) This one guy took a two year trip overseas -- Lawyers Without Boundaries or something like that -- but failed to take care of a client's pending lawsuit before leaving, or at least give her back her files, or even notify her that he was taking off for two years. She had no contact number, the office was closed, and she ended up losing (by default) a very significant lawsuit because she no longer had the documents needed to continue with it even if she had found another attorney. The judge was very, very unamused. I can't remember what the punishment was, but it was severe.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that what you are upset with, Pa, is something that their own Rules of Professional Conduct say you should be upset about. I have a lot of compassion for genuinely ill people, but... he should be having someone -- anyone -- help him during this time, not only for your sake but his own. *sigh* Keep your eye on it, Pa.

[aachudneymiles]

yeah he sucks ... make sure you follow up on things after closing of bk... good luck