Interesting Instructions for Sch. I

[LifeNLemons]

Now how would you interpret that? For example: Paydays are the 7th and the 21st. The 7th is from the time worked during the 16th until the end of the last month. The 21st is for the 1st until the 15th of that current month. So, do you use the actual deposit dates (7th & 21st) or the wages "earned" during the month, even if not paid during the month?

The way I see it, they've already "tagged" your earned, but unpaid income as an asset. i.e.; According to NV exemptions only 75% of that belongs to the debtor (or more at the judges discretion).

I'd use the wages earned during the month. Especially if there was a whole lotta overtime/holiday time on the check from the last part of last month. It doesn't accurately describe the typical monthly income received.

[HHM]

Is it a meaningful distinction you are drawing? (I suppose if your income fluctuates substantially in a given month, but for those with relatively stable pay checks, its a wash).

Think of it this way, your income does not become executable until the check gets cut. Thus, you use the checks received in the given month to calculate income.

[jp2861]

If you're getting two checks every month then add them up. Theres not much to interpret. What you quoted is what happens when the 6 month average differs from what your monthly CURRENT income is this month. Mine for the last 6 months average is higher than what my actual current monthly income is today.

[LifeNLemons]

Typically I'm a salaried employee, my checks are the same. I worked on Thanksgiving and was paid double time and a half, or about $300 more than what I normally make. That check was paid to me on the 7th of Dec. That is not my typical salary, so why would I have to use that as my Sch. I income? That will not be the amount I'll make every month for the next year.

Or is that why it asks if I expect an increase/decrease? (there's a dim lightbulb flickering in my head) So I can note that there was unusual holiday pay that is not going to be repeated...

And what about the fact that 25% of that is supposedly non-exempt in the BK estate. Doesn't matter in the scheme of things?

[HHM]

Exemptions do not matter on schedule I...the purpose of schedule I is to inform the court of your income, and schedule J to inform the court of your expenses to see if you have any "actual" surplus.

For the purposes of income determination, your money is earned when it is paid.

Use the expected increase/decrease section to clarify your circumstances to the court. (or wait another month to file )

A side note on Nevada Exemptions...that 75% exemption for income also applies to money in your bank account so long as that money is directly traceable to your wages. So when you are filing out your schedule of assets, use that exemption for your cash in your bank account.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Life, do you at least have the Nolo Press book to help you fill these out? If not, I *highly* recommend it -- I couldn't have done mine without it. The new (Dec 1) forms are not so significantly different from the old (Apr 07?) that are used in the book, that you couldn't find the explanation and answer you need. You can download it from Nolo press for about $20, and buy the book for about $30. They have the book in bookstores too, which is where I got it, and then found this forum.

[LifeNLemons]

A side note on Nevada Exemptions...that 75% exemption for income also applies to money in your bank account so long as that money is directly traceable to your wages. So when you are filing out your schedule of assets, use that exemption for your cash in your bank account.

I had less than $60 in the bank when I filed in the account my wages are deposited in. I withdrew everything and paid for groceries, gas and daycare knowing they'd want my account balance. (kept the receipts for it all too, just in case. ;) ) I have another account that is solely for child support deposits. No other money goes into that account. I had set that up for different reasons, but its working in my favor now.

Life, do you at least have the Nolo Press book to help you fill these out? If not, I *highly* recommend it -- I couldn't have done mine without it. The new (Dec 1) forms are not so significantly different from the old (Apr 07?) that are used in the book, that you couldn't find the explanation and answer you need. You can download it from Nolo press for about $20, and buy the book for about $30. They have the book in bookstores too, which is where I got it, and then found this forum.

I have a NOLO book from 2006. Not the most current one. It's definitely a life saver. I'm just an over analyzer worry wart. LOL I'm just ticked that I have to use that as my "current" income, when its a false representation of what I make. It was a fluke, probably never to be repeated in my job's lifetime.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

I have a NOLO book from 2006. Not the most current one. It's definitely a life saver. I'm just an over analyzer worry wart. LOL I'm just ticked that I have to use that as my "current" income, when its a false representation of what I make. It was a fluke, probably never to be repeated in my job's lifetime.

Oh, cool. Glad you have the book. I was kinda worried there for a second.

You know, maybe I'm a fool for offering this info on my schedules, but on my own I and J, I pointed out that while I am currently unemployed with no income, it is possible that I may become employed this year. However, because of my disability it is impossible to predict when that might happen. On the J, I added that while I am currently living with family (hence the low expenses) as soon as I become employed I will be expected to find other living arrangements and will have a normal array of expenses. I said all that on the forms because if I become employed by income will go up *dramatically*, even if it's only part time at minimum wage, and so will my expenses. I mean, when you're bringing in $0 everything looks like a fortune, coming in AND going out. I don't want anyone coming after me later for either reason.

The reason I mention this to you now is because I honestly think you would not go wrong to put that your income was jacked up by a one-time increase in pay, and so your income is reasonably expected to *decrease*. Your trustee will probably want bank statements in addition to your tax returns anyway, they ask for those as a matter of course, so he'll see it's not normal for you to make that much: your direct deposits will show the increased amount was only available for one month. But it's up to you to point it out to him. Those are my thoughts on it, anyway.

[monkatom]

side question to schedule I. wife gets paid 10 times a year every month except July and August. So this works in our favor when filling in Januray as it will show no money for July and august for the means test. Now question for schedule I, if I use her monthly check than it looks like she makes more than she actually does since she does not get a check for two months. so I was planning on calculating her average check if she were paid monthly. is this correct? just trying to answer all these questions before paying a lawyer as I think he is already tired of my questions.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

side question to schedule I. wife gets paid 10 times a year every month except July and August. So this works in our favor when filling in Januray as it will show no money for July and august for the means test. Now question for schedule I, if I use her monthly check than it looks like she makes more than she actually does since she does not get a check for two months. so I was planning on calculating her average check if she were paid monthly. is this correct? just trying to answer all these questions before paying a lawyer as I think he is already tired of my questions.

Going pro se I had to figure this out for myself, and I think basically that they expect I & J to match, but not to match the means test. The means test potentially includes money that is not your own, such as what anyone else contributes to your household. Plus, the means test is averages and I & J is supposed to be actual, so they are likely to differ some anyway. I think if you adhere scrupulously to the instructions on the forms themselves you can't go wrong; for instance Schedule I says "Estimate of average or projected monthly income at time case is filed," so your averaging approach would seem to be appropriate.

Whenever I got to a place where it looked like a glaring discrepancy (like me having $0 income but paying expenses like gas and medical) I explained it briefly on the form itself, because I can't afford to mount any kind of a defense if it gets challenged by a creditor. Most people would say don't offer up more than you have to, and they're right if you have an attorney to advise you, but me... I'd rather explain in writing than in a 341, know what I mean?

So I gave an estimate of what the family gives me in cash (to cover the small expenses I have) and even included that in the means test. Apparently I made 6K this year. Heh.

P.S. You know, if you're really committed to figuring all this out ahead of time before you pay an attorney (wise, wise choice, I think) why not go ahead and buy the Nolo book? I understand money is tight or you wouldn't be here, but that's the best $30 I've spent in the last three years. You can get it from Nolo Press online for $20 in PDF. I don't think you'd go wrong in getting it; you seem to be able to process all of this just as if you were going pro se and it would not be wasted money for you. Well, that's my thought on it anyway.

[monkatom]

thanks for the info. I have the NOLO book I checked out from thelibrary. I used their forms to do the I and J but did not see anything on how to calculate income for the I in our particular situation
thanks again

[FreshLikeADaisy]

thanks for the info. I have the NOLO book I checked out from the library. I used their forms to do the I and J but did not see anything on how to calculate income for the I in our particular situation

Yeah, there were things I needed that weren't in there either (like how do you do expenses/contributions to household income when you live with your folks) but all in all that book has saved me so I suggested it. Good luck!

[monkatom]

I agree I love teh book and even though I am using a lawyer I feel like by reading teh book and doing my homework I feel more in control of teh situation and hopefully can spot any errors or ommisions by my attorney. One good thing is the attorney I will most likely use calle me and e-mails me directly no paralegal to deal with.