chapter 7 HELP ME PLEASE ADVICE-I sold secured auto loan vehicle!

[theEYE]

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[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

You need to go to the DMV and fill out new forms stating you sold the car to so and so. If their is a lien on the car it is your responsibility to list the bank as the lienholder.

Unfortunately this is a lot messier than you intended. The Bank still owns that car, so if you were to default on that loan down the road, guess what their going to come after?

How close are you with the buyer? The way I see it, you better give that money back to the buyer and explain the situation honestly and upfront, the car was really not yours to sell unless you have a clear title, regardless if the DMV gave you the title with no lien holder listed. I don't think the DMV would have let you sell the car had they known the lien was on it. But whats done is done.

You are stuck paying for the rest of the loan unless you can get the money to pay it off somehow. The "new owner," needs to know this (so I don't know how close you are with this person). But they need to know that you are still paying for that car and the Bank can come for the car, THAT there might persuade them to give up the car and give the money back. Gosh, I hope you didn't spend the money and I hope all works out for you!

I hope I helped somewhat! Catchmeifyoucan

[CindyLou]

Hi, and welcome to the site. Your situation seems like a complicated one and I would certainly make an appt with 2-3 BK attorney's asap for free consulations. You did not mention how much is your income, your family size and your state of residence, all of which could affect whether you qualify for chapter 7.

As far as the bank, if they never filed the lein, then the loan you have with them may be unsecured and the check may be yours and the loan may be between you and the bank despite the car. On the contrary, if the bank did file the lien and the DMV made a mistake then you may have to contact the buyer and get the car back because you did not have the legal ability to sell the car if you were not the title holder in reality. Now this is just my assumptions. You cannot ignore this. If the bank did file the lien and the DMV made a mistake they will go after the buyer and get the car back and they buyer will be coming after you for their money.

[theEYE]

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[kiddles]

Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but it kinda sounds like "nanny nanny boo boo". You signed loan documents giving them a secured interest in the car when you got the money. Maybe they filed their lien and the clerk;s office didn't record it properly, maybe they didn't record their lien. Either way, you owe them the money and have sold the car that secured the loan.

You really need the assistance of an attorney here, and perhaps a criminal attorney as well. The bank could legitimately look at your actions as fraud, and you could have to defend yourself against charges of fraudulent conveyance. The buyer may also have a cause of action against you - the bank can legally repo the car, even though the buyer doesn't owe them anything. Then the bank and the buyer can look to you to make them whole.

Get a very good laywer and follow the advice he/she gives you!

[kiddles]

BK will not elimiate debts created in fraud, so even if the debt to the bank was discharged (as in, there was no fraud involved in taking out the original auto loan) once they repo the car the buyer could file a claim against you and the BK would not discharge it, because selling the car was fraudulent.

[theEYE]

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[kiddles]

You had to sign something for the loan. If the dealership handled obtaining financing for you, then the loan docs were included in the packet of crap you signed before you left with the car.

As for whose responsibilit it is to file the lien, it is the creditors responsibility. That is completely separate from your responsibility for the loan.

I'm still hearing "nanny nanny boo boo" in my head in your post.

ETA:
I believe liens can be filed at any time, so once the bank realized that the lien isn't showing on your title, they may correct that mistake.

[CindyLou]

the loan papers would NOT be filled out at the dealership if the dealership did not obtain financing.

I just recently refied my car through a credit union and I didn't "sign any papers" either. But if you go back and look at the app you filled out beforehand it has the stuff in it regarding repayment....you signed the app, right?? Then when the bank funds the loan they send you a voucher or receipt of the funding and it should have your final terms.

NOW there is of course the chance you signed NOTHING....maybe someone didn't do their job. Maybe you have no promissary note and no lien. But you do have verbal contract, which is valid!!!! Plus you've been paying it . I could argue that it might not be secured by the car if they didn't file the lein. And yes, the leinholder is responsible for filing the lein or no leins would ever get filed....lol

[theEYE]

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[kiddles]

Did you get the "truth in lending act" statement?

It would be completely beyond the norm for a lender (especially a bank) to just shell out the money without something with your signature on it agreeing to repayment and granting them a security interest in the car. WAY outside the norm.

[ssdsco]

SORRY FOR THE RAMBLING; I began with an auto loan for twice the amount of the vehicle, due to 2 upside down trade ins at dealerships. Recently I sold my vehicle private party in an effort to pay off half the auto loan and roll over the remaining balance into a unsecured personal loan, and get a new less expensive auto loan that i could afford. The dmv issued me the title somehow with NO LIEN holder printed on it and me as the sole owner. I thought nothing of it and signed it over. I started this on the advice from an unknown rep. from the bank the loan is through. after selling the vehicle quickly to a private buyer for cash, i sent the amount to the bank, only to find out they would not qualify me for the new personal loan because of too much new debt in the last year. They would conveniently give me a new auto loan as soon as i paid off the current auto loan which is twice the amount i recieved from the buyer. WELL they then told me to get the car back from the buyer as an option and keep it, OR continue to make payments on a car i dont have until its PAID IN FULL. They still do not know about the whole title thing. WHAT DO I DO? I have NO car now-NO loan for another CAR-and I dont want the old car back, let alone have the negotiating skills to get it. I was already considering a CHAP.7 in the near future, that is why i went with a loan for lesser amount for the vehicle i will now NOT be getting-i would have just continued paying on it with a reaffirmation. ALL THIS on TOP OF two 1st LOAN mortgages and two 2nd loan mortgages totalling $630000k over 2 properties, $57k in personal "family/friends" loans, $24k in credit cards, $5k misc. past due bills. The auto loan was around $23k and sold the car for $10k, so have a check for $10k but no car and no collaterol for the bank and NO IDEA WHAT TO DO. PLEASE HELP.

Sounds like the bank knows you sold the vehicle and they didn't raise issues about selling a vehicle they hold a lien on. Is it possible you initially bought the vehicle on an unsecured line of credit with no lien ?

[JollyGG]

It sounds to me like you got lucky. The bank did not properly file a lein against the vehicle. Therefore, you may be able to get this all worked.

I know there have been cases in my district where the lein was not filed properly, someone declared banruptcy and the trustee siezed the car because the debtor owned the car free and clear and didn't have the exemptions to cover it.

theEYE do you have other debts? Are you planning to file bankruptcy?

[theEYE]

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