Need to reopen Chpt 7 immediately

[scking]

My bk 7 discharged on 10-7.

I have 2 problems. First of all, I filed in pro per by myself. I had listed my auto loan on my petition as a "to be reaffirmed" debt. Unfortunately, I didn't understand that I was to have done a reaffirmation agreement with the creditor prior to my discharge. The creditor after receiving my discharge paper in the mail came screaming down here and reposessed my car during the night. I had planned on calling them after I received my discharge. I was waiting for that to happen. Because I had moved, it took extra time to get my discharge paper through the mail.

1) Now they want all my back payments $1500 to get my car back. This is totally outrageous. I need to reopen my case. My question is can I have the bankruptcy judge set the terms of my loan with these people. The point of getting a fresh start is to NOT get into trouble again. I will want a longer term and also a lower interest rate. They're charging over 23%. Can the judge do this and order the creditor to change the terms? Was it legal for them to repossess my car even when my petition states that I had planned on reaffirming the auto loan?

2) I have a boat in the City of Long Beach, CA. I was 2 months behind on my slip rent ($600) on this was listed on my petition. (City of Long Beach) My take is that they violated the automatic stay by moving my boat to the impound dock so they could rerent my slip. I filed on June 20, 2007. They moved my boat from my slip in August. Is this act on their part a violation of the automatic stay? Isn't it like towing a car to enforce the collection of a loan? As such, should I be able to get sanctions against them?

How do I reopen the case ? I spoke with the City attorney in Long Beach and he said to go get court order ordering the City to release my boat back to me.

I need to know:
1) How do I reopen case? What are the exact steps? Is there a form for this for the court? If so, what is the form and where can I get a copy? What should it say?

2) After reopening the case, how do I file a motion to request the judge to get my car back and reaffirm with the prior creditor with new terms? What form do I use for this? What do I say in the form. Please don't tell me to go get an attorney as I have NO MONEY at all right now.

3) How do I file a motion requesting a COURT ORDER ordering the City of Long Beach to surrender my boat to me at 0 cost. The court order should also direct the City to provide me with a temporary slip for my boat. This guy in the City attorney's office thinks that my claim on my petition of $600 is to be subtracted from the $14,000 in impound fees from keeping my boat at they're impound dock. At no point in time during the period allowed for the creditor to dispute the claim did they file any type of notice with the bankruptcy court. They just went ahead and moved my boat from it's slip in violation of the automatic stay. Isn't this true?

How do I prepare all this, and how FAST can I get the court to sign the order for my car and boat?

The impounding of my car caused me to go buy a car but the financing hasn't been approved yet. I need to get this done in ONE DAY, MAYBE TWO, and then have the discharge again. Is this possible? I would have to return this car and go get a rental car again until I can get this order get my car returned to me that was reposessed by my creditor.

Thanks for the help.

[danaf]

i don't know about your boat but if you wanted to reaffirm your car, you should have kept the payments up. they would have never taken it if you did. they had every right to do what they did because you did not show them good faith by keeping up the payments.

i'm not sure you can reopen your case.

[SinkingFast]

[scking]

I don't care about my car so much, but I need my boat back. How do I reopen my case and file a complaint about the City of Long Beach and get a court order to return my boat to me?

[biotechsolution]

Judges don't like to reopen cases for reaffirmation agreements

at least in my district. If you do get the judge to re-open the case I don't think he will set interest rates and terms of the loan. Usually that is left up to you during the reaffirmation agreement. Since you were behind on payments I'm not sure if you would have been able to reaffim without the payments being current. More than likely the judge may just let the car go. The lender didn't do anything wrong if you were behind on payments and your case was discharged. I think your chances are pretty slim on getting this car back and any other terms.

I also don't think you will get anywhere with the bankruptcy court and the city on your slip. You should be able to get your boat back but you are not going to get a slip unless you pay for it. In addition any impound fees and slip rental that accured after your petition date are not going to be dischargeable.

But has for time frames you're looking at most likely, even with a motion to expedite your reopening, at least 2 weeks to get a court date to reopen your case. And a $260 payment to reopen it.

[SinkingFast]

Not really sure Reopening your BK is the appropriate course of action to recover your boat.

If you do try Reopening your BK,.......... That may be a loosing battle with the BK Court. Since the City operates the marina, you're going up against a Governmental Unit. The BK Court favors Governmental Units.

Hopefully others will chime in for you.

[scking]

I guess we're sort of missing the point. Did the City violate the automatic stay by moving my boat to their impound dock ? They were sent notice of my petition. They did not file anything with the court during the allowed time period.

[SinkingFast]

Holding your boat at impound vs holding your boat in the slip may be a moot point. It may be a case of,.......... The City is the City is the City.

[scking]

A moot point? If my boat had stayed in its slip until its discharge, at $325/month times 5 months that's $1625 as opposed to $150/day times 3 months. About $14,000. That's a moot point? I'm going to find out what the court thinks of that moot point.....

[HenriettaHen]

SC, you've got a couple of problems here, the way I see it .

First the car -

"I filed in pro per by myself. I had listed my auto loan on my petition as a "to be reaffirmed" debt. Unfortunately, I didn't understand that I was to have done a reaffirmation agreement with the creditor prior to my discharge.

.....they want all my back payments $1500 "

Filing on your own is tricky business, and unfortunately, you have made two mistakes with the car - mistakes which have resulted in the situation you described above.

The first mistake was not keeping your car payments up during BK. If you are going to reaffirm, the payments must be kept current. If you don't keep current, you can't reaffirm. Therefore, they can repossess immediately after discharge (which they did).

The second mistake was in not fully understanding the reaffirmation process and how it works in the time frame. That responsibility lies with you, if you don't have an attorney.

I doubt that you will succeed in reopening your case to reaffirm the car. However, you won't owe anything on it, either.

Now the boat.

"I was 2 months behind on my slip rent ($600) on this was listed on my petition. (City of Long Beach) My take is that they violated the automatic stay by moving my boat to the impound dock so they could rerent my slip."

The automatic stay prevents a creditor from collecting a debt, but it does not obligate them to extend you more credit - such as free slip rent while in BK.

The City didn't try to collect the back rent for the slip, but they did EVICT you from it, and hold your property in storage in the meantime. This would be similar to having your car towed, or you being evicted from your rental property for not paying the rent.

Your BK prevents your matrix creditors from collecting the debts listed on your petition, but it does not entitle you in any way to any other rights while you are in BK. The City has every right to re-rent the slip, as soon as you fall behind in rent. They have no obligation whatsoever to you at this point, other than to properly store your boat at a fee until you can reclaim it.

They have stored your property for you, and now you owe the storage fees in order to regain possession of the boat.

This is a harsh lesson in what can happen if you rush a pro se BK and do not take the time to learn every single detail about the process.

It's not all as easy as it looks.

[JollyGG]

I'm sorry to say but HenriettaHen is completely right and summarized the situation rather accurately.

I'm sorry you are having these problems, but unfortunatelly both the city and the auto lender were within their rights and reopening your bankruptcy won't change that.

A bankruptcy discharges a debt insomuch as they cannot collect money from you. However, if that debt is secured by property they can collect the property.