Employment & expenses changed since filing ???

[chap7 hopeful]

I filed Chapter 7 at the end of July and have my 341 set for August 22nd. I've been unemployed and the situation leading to filing also has forced me to find a new job. I did. Good news right? My first day is August 13th making just below California's median income.

My question: My expenses were set extremely low because it didn't matter, I had no substantial income. I questioned it but the lawyer said that we'd simply amend the expense schedule if this situation arises. Now, shouldn't we amend both my employment status and my expenses to match (and they truthfully do)??? The lawyer said to wait and see how it goes at the 341 but it seems clear. My monthly income is going to be some $800 more then my expenses. I'll be screwed and we'll have to continue the 341. Right??? He said it would look suspicious if we changed/amended anything right now. I think it looks suspicious if we don't foreclose this information. I have nothing to hide!!!!! Please help with advice.

This forum has been such an incredible resource for so many. I only hope for the same feedback regarding my situation.

Thank you in advance!

[lrprn]

My monthly income is going to be some $800 more then my expenses. I'll be screwed and we'll have to continue the 341. Right??? He said it would look suspicious if we changed/amended anything right now.

I don't like to second-guess someone's attorney. They know your situation, the local bk court's customs and what the trustees will tolerate. However, from reading about others' experiences having to amend forms, it seems most bk lawyers prefer to do so before the 341 meeting.

How did your lawyer explain lowering your expenses from what they actually are to you?

[chap7 hopeful]

reply 1

You are right about questioning them. I feel like a jerk, but I am an ignorant jerk as I've not done this before.

First of all, I don't know why the expenses were set so low or where the schedule was poplulated from. I've heard different things. They didn't lower my expenses, they just didn't really make an attempt to think of everything. When I questioned it I got the response "We can adjust it later."

[lrprn]

When I questioned it I got the response "We can adjust it later."

And your response should be, "It's later. I want to adjust this to be truthful before my 341 meeting or explain to me in plain language I can understand exactly why you think it isn't a good idea and what will happen if we do adjust my expenses right now."

Don't trash yourself over this. We all felt overwhelmed when we first started learning about bankruptcy. Your instincts told you there wasn't something right about this and you came asking questions.....good for you! Just keep asking questions - we'll help you as much as we can. Hang in there!

[chap7 hopeful]

I am attempting to get word back from the lawyers right now. I have an open and shut case and feel comforable with the truth. MAYBE - they know the Trustee and know that they can show her the necessary documents after the 341 and all will be good? MAYBE

I figure they want to be done with me ASAP, they've been paid. But as it stands, I anticpate taking a half day of work off to go to 341 #1 only to have it continued to come back with additional paperwork and documentation. I kind of undersand this and for what it's worth it'll probably strengthen my case. BUT, why not reamend the information or warn the trustee's office of this now and see what can be done.

Someone open my eyes to the backroom antics of the bankruptcy process. Do they all have side agreements like I see in Law & Order. Is there any opportunity for me to contact the Trustee's office myself and ask thier advice. I assume that would be a stupid thing to do. Right??? Oh, what a mess.

Thanks already!

[novemberrain]

i wish you luck with your bk. i filed bk on may 18th. i went on disability on may 29th. about a week later my attorney told me that the bk court wanted to investigate my case. i gave the bk court the documents they wanted and we had our 341 meeting and i had told them that i was on disability and they pretty much didnt care about the difference in income. the bk court also wanted documentation on how much daycare i pay. at the time of filing it was $1160 a month and on june 12th my daughter turned 2 and my monthly daycare went to $1130 a month. i didnt even think this was a big deal. a week later the bk court filed a dismissal due to the presumption of abuse.

i would make sure all the info about your job is out there before the meeting. but then again you might get understanding trustees.

best of luck to you!

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

At the 341 Meeting

My question: My expenses were set extremely low because it didn't matter, I had no substantial income. I questioned it but the lawyer said that we'd simply amend the expense schedule if this situation arises. Now, shouldn't we amend both my employment status and my expenses to match (and they truthfully do)??? The lawyer said to wait and see how it goes at the 341 but it seems clear. My monthly income is going to be some $800 more then my expenses. I'll be screwed and we'll have to continue the 341. Right??? He said it would look suspicious if we changed/amended anything right now. I think it looks suspicious if we don't foreclose this information. I have nothing to hide!!!!! Please help with advice.

I believe one of the questions the Trustee asks during the meeting has your income changed ..

You can tell him than, and from their you will be required so many days to resubmit another schedule , plan , expense etc.

Best of Luck, Catchmeifyoucan

[JRScott]

I don't see why he wouldn't want to amend first. Seems that would be easier than later. Good luck to you

[freshstart06]

To be honest, you should follow what your lawyer stated. She must have some kind of experience with this. You will have to consider your first schedules show lower expenses and you were able to live in that matter, I am just afraid that the trustee will look at the situation as why does your expense have to go up???

I would just wait and see what happens at the meeting, you may be one of the lucky ones and she may not ask if your situation has changed and if she does at that time just tell her you found a job, if they ask you to amend at that time then do so but she may not.

I mean , really, you now have $800 dollars extra to try to expense. I could see if it was like $200 dollars but $800 may put some things into question.

If you had an open and shut case I would leave everything alone and follow my lawyer. She may have already wrote a statement in your behalf. This is a hard call but you may want to just wait. This simple case could get ugly if you offer too much info.

Too bad you could not have waited until after the 341 meeting to take the job.

[freshstart06]

i wish you luck with your bk. i filed bk on may 18th. i went on disability on may 29th. about a week later my attorney told me that the bk court wanted to investigate my case. i gave the bk court the documents they wanted and we had our 341 meeting and i had told them that i was on disability and they pretty much didnt care about the difference in income. the bk court also wanted documentation on how much daycare i pay. at the time of filing it was $1160 a month and on june 12th my daughter turned 2 and my monthly daycare went to $1130 a month. i didnt even think this was a big deal. a week later the bk court filed a dismissal due to the presumption of abuse.

i would make sure all the info about your job is out there before the meeting. but then again you might get understanding trustees.

best of luck to you!

Novemberrain, do you think they dismissed your case because you were on disability and had a kid in daycare??? I was told because I was not working, not to make my daycare expense very high because the trustee will look at it like if you are home why is the kid in daycare???? They will allow childcare if you need assistance or for doctor visit, things along that line. I often wonder if the trustees were in our shoes would the rules be different.

[novemberrain]

Novemberrain, do you think they dismissed your case because you were on disability and had a kid in daycare??? I was told because I was not working, not to make my daycare expense very high because the trustee will look at it like if you are home why is the kid in daycare???? They will allow childcare if you need assistance or for doctor visit, things along that line. I often wonder if the trustees were in our shoes would the rules be different.

even though i am still on disability i still would take my kids to daycare. i could not just take them out because they would lose their spot and i was so sick somedays i was unable to take care of them. at the 341 meeting they did ask why so high and i told them that was pretty much a low price considering other daycare providers. they did ask when i was going back to work and i told them it depends on my condition when i will go back. as of now i am still in disability and not sure when i will be going back to work.

[freshstart06]

trust me I understand where you are coming from but the trustee act like they don't. did you get dismissed already or are you going to fight??? If you are going to fight, you could argue that due to your disability, your medical expense can go up for unexpected things for this reason there really isn't any extra dispoable income. Not sure how much you guys are over the median now but if you have meds that you have to pay out of pocket you could add that to expenses, any copays because of your illness on top of the general medical expense to take care of the family.

as stated before fight don't allow them to dismiss, there is a way for people with medical problems.

[chap7 hopeful]

OK, new direction...

As stated before, I wasn't sure why we were not going to make the changes to the schedules prior to the 341. Apparently now, it was because we (lawyer) was hoping that it wouldn't come up. Now, had it not come up that would have been fricking awsome and I put myself through more anguish.

But after talking with them we're making the changes and we'll refile the schedules accordingly. Thank you all for your thoughts. If anyone knows why re-filing would effect my situation for the better or worse I'm all ears. I understand that if income stayed constant and expenses went up right before the 341... But I'm literally not paying bills and eating like I'm using food stamps. Money from family helps the rest. Once I have a paycheck again I'm back paying for everything plus parking, plus lunches at work, plus dry cleaning, plus etc... etc...

I think I'm gonna be OK.

[freshstart06]

chpt7hopeful, you know, we can give you advice but you have to follow your heart. I always say listen to your first mind and don't second guess. If you feel the right thing to do is to file before the meeting then there is a reason for this, you would hate yourself if you did not follow what you believe was right.

Bk is tricky, what some people get away with others don't. There are people with very high income over the median getting discharge and there are others under the median that are not.

I just believe our instincts lead us to what to do. If you feel that everything is going to be okay then it will.

[novemberrain]

to freshstart. i would like to fight but i think my attorney is not all there. my attorney said we are only about $150 over the median and when we had our 341 meeting they didnt really seem to care i was on disability. i think my attorney messed up the means test because he put we have 2 car payments and we dont we have 1. also my paycheck was being garnished and the attorney put the money that was being garnished into the means test. sooo for this i think the presumption of abuse came up and the trustees really dont care that much for people.