Giving back the furniture?

[jenjen62979]

We filed Chapt 7 back in Feb of this year, 341 went smooth, Pacer says no assets. waiting on discharge report. We got a letter from our lawyer saying Art Van the furniture company listed on the bankruptcy has a secure interest for $3127 and that we can raffirm, pay a lump sum or surrender. We have no money so I guess surrendering is our only option. What is the chances they will come get the stuff? We don't even have all of it still? Will they want my matress even? Can they force us to bring the stuff to them?

Thanks.

Jena

[mark]

I think that I can even anwser this one, but don't take my word for it. I could be all wet here but, If you listed them as a secured creditor than the debt is not dischargable. You either have to reafirm as you said paying a lump sum for arrears and then resume normal payments or if you can pay it in full you are the proud undisputed owner. But the trustee might question you about the cash you payed with. Or yep you can best believe they will come get it all even the bed. I had a job many years ago for a very short period of time repo-ing furniture. I was told to get it no matter what I had to do and even sometimes I was told to destoy it and dispose of it while in view of debtor. That is when I quit and found a real job.

For 3150.00 I would let them come get it. I found some great stuff at a yard sale for less than a hundred bucks.


mark

[shygal]

Hi, I just wanted to say something about the whole furniture issue. I do not believe that anyone would come for USED furniture! We also bought new furniture in late 2002 and mid-2003 TOTALLY alot of $$$. We too, were very worried that some guy in a truck would come take it away BUT our attorney and several people here assured us that it is highly unlikely! What are they going to do with used furniture? They have to obtain a court order to enter your home , which means they have to have a lawyer to do this, then they have to hire drivers, a moving truck...ect. to come pick up the stuff and then what?? what do they do with used stuff? I am sorry, I do not believe that they would pay someone to pick up used furniture and destroy it! What would be the point of that? If the news would catch wind of that, that stores GOOD name would be ruined! Mark, what state and where did you work at, that they did this? ???

[mark]

Shygal,

Hay, I'm on your side. I was only stating what I have personal experiance with. I was not suggesting that this type of thing would happen to JenJen. I am sorry if it sounded that way. If you don't have any used furniture stores in your state you are probably safe. Its a big business around here.

I was working in Georgia at the time. In Georgia, all you have to do to repo personal property in default is to go to the local Sheriffs office and show the purchase agreements and payment history. The Sheriff will go to the home of the debtor and ask for proof of payment. If they cannot produce it they will be ordered to stand aside while the creditor repos the items. They can also be arrested if they resist or have removed the property from the residence in order to avoid repo. No Judges are required. Maybe your State is more reasonable, I don't know. I do not agree with how Georgia treats their residents and thats why I would never work in that business again. It is a terrible situation for all that are involved, including the officer that has to enforce the law. Most purchase agreements are full of waivers of rights that are void in Bankruptcy cases anyway, so you are not subject to the local yocal repo laws.

The reason that some furniture is destroyed on site is because of insect (roach) infestation that is common in some low income housing projects. A much different situation than yours. The other reason is to send a message to anyone that if you buy it and don't pay for it you are going to lose it. This type of business practice is common of the "Rent To Own" companies probably not so much in the bigger well know companies. You say that your furniture is "used"? I assumed since you said that you haven't even got it all yet, that it was fairly new. I doubt that many companies would stay in business long if they gave away furniture. Why would they bother to secure it if they had no intention to recover it? It doesn't make since to me. Once people figure out that they never come to get it, they will fill their house out with furniture and never pay a dime. Let me know how that works out for you, I could use a house full of new ops I mean "used" furniture for free.


mark

[jenjen62979]

Hi,
Wow that is some scary stuff. I bought this stuff new at a retail furniture store in 2002. We used our store credit card for the purchase. It was not a rent to own type of place. What I said was that we do not even have all of the furniture anymore, meaning some we sold at a garage sale , some to my mother etc. So I was wondering what they would do about that, etc? I will be surrendering even if they never come and get the stuff.

Jena

[shygal]

Mark,
When I say the furniture is "used" I mean, it has been sat on! It has experienced "wear and tear" like anything else that ONCE was NEW ! As like a new car that leaves a showroom.. once it has left the lot it could NOT be sold as new but rather, as is. I am not trying to argue with you Mark.. but rather clearify my point. I purchased my furniture BRAND new from a well know furniture chain WITH FULL intent to pay it ! Which over the course of 1 1/2 years, I have paid almost 1/2 of it off ! I did not expect my husbands small business to go belly up and leave us finacially strapped. Filing BK was NOT my intention when I purchased my furniture. So DO NOT imply that I got FREE furniture ! Or that I never inteded to pay for it ! And yeh, I will let you know how it all works out.. so maybe you can get that house full or NEW, ops, I mean "USED" furniture!

[mark]

Shygal,

There I go again, trying to be objective, speaking in general, not at or about you, and I ended up offending. I have to stop doing that. I apologize for causing you to feel like you needed to defend youself and I certainly didn't mean to imply that your situation was in anyway intentional. Remember, if you have read some of my post, I am also bankrupt and 4 weeks from being foreclosed on. When I bought this house 5 years ago I wasn't planning losing my job either. But I did and now I have to deal with the results of that fact. Shygal, you are obviously one tough cookie and I mean that in the best possible way. You are the type of person that I would want on my side in adverse situations. I do think that jenjen situation is different than yours and she should know that it is very possible that they will come a knocking. My advise to her was to let it go back instead of becoming stressed out over it.

mark

[mark]

Jena

Jena,

Sorry I obviously became side tracked as you probably know. I was only offering my experiances as they apply to the furniture business in my neck of the woods. I have no idea what Ace Furnitures business practices are but, forget what I said about letting the furniture go back. You DO NOT want them to find out that you sold some of what they will consider to be their property. Read your purchase agreement carefully, You need to be prepared to deal with them if they do come. Paying for it may be your only option at this point.

mark

[EdytaHome]

OK, so what happens if the secured interest is a computer? Dell sent me a reaffirmation for my computer worth approx $2300, I declined and said I would surrender. Will they really come and get it? I called the lawyers office I received the reaffirmation paperwork from but they told me they only deal through my lawyer. It's been over a month and I haven't heard anything.

[mark]

Having your cake....

I quess that it all depends on the creditor no matter if its furniture or a computor or anything else for that matter. There is one thing for sure and that is that the bankruptcy courts do not provide the opportunity for us to "Have your cake and eat it too". You are leaving yourselves wide open for judgements, garnessments, levis, collection harrassment and you will not have any recourse to stop them. They will probably just sit back and wait for you to forget about them thinking that they have forgotten about you and when you least expect it, you bank accounts will be seized or wages will be attached or your taxes will be levied or whatever it is that they decide to do.

You all do what you want to do, the fact that you posted these questions tells me that you know there is a potential problem, but if it was me I would hand carry the stuff back to them tommorrow and would not leave untill they released the security note marked satisfied and then I would take a picture of the property in the hands of the creditor. Then you can forget about it and go on with your lives.

Good luck,

mark

[EdytaHome]

If you listed them as a secured creditor than the debt is not dischargable.

Sorry, not true! A secured debt is dischargeable, the secured party will come after the secured interest and want it back, that's all. You just have to give it back but you can still discharge whatever you owed on it.

[EdytaHome]

You all do what you want to do, the fact that you posted these questions tells me that you know there is a potential problem, but if it was me I would hand carry the stuff back to them tommorrow and would not leave untill they released the security note marked satisfied and then I would take a picture of the property in the hands of the creditor. Then you can forget about it and go on with your lives.

Didn't like that response.
You obviously haven't had to surrender anything yet. It's pretty hard to give a computer back. I called and offered to give this secured interest back and was told to wait to handle things through my lawyer. Still waiting and discharged. Hope things go better for you, you're obviously here because of a hardship and because you filed or are going to file BK.

[shygal]

I also didn't like that response! Mark, you are basically in the same " boat " as all of us! Maybe all of your responses to us are an out-pouring of your own insecurities about Bk and the whole frightening part of it ! None of us are here to argue of fight with anyone... we are all here to ask questions and gain moral support from each other! You , on the other hand, are here to point fingers and pass judgement! Think befor you type a response please. Edytahome, I would just wait and see what happens with the computer. Did your lawyer advise you to take any kinda action ? Our lawyer told us ( with the furniture ) that if you like to gamble then wait and see what happens, otherwise, surrender or re-affirm the items ! I guess we are going to gamble and see what happens .Good luck to you.. let me know how it all goes..and welcome back !