I Think I Got a Good Deal! What do You Think??

[IvoryAngel]

I have decided my goal date to file is August 1st. I figured the only way I am going to get this all done is to set a date and stick to it.

Well, I have been having good success getting the necessary paperwork together and the Best Case software I found is awesome!!

I was reading some post about a few people who were filing ProSe who were having problems and I thought UGH! I sure don't want that to happen to me thats is the last thing I need you know. This whole thing is stressful as is.

So this is what I did I posted that I was interested in hiring a Paralegal with Bankruptcy experience NOT to do my paperwork but just to review to double check for errors. As no one here can do that because they do not what they are looking for. Anyways I found a paralegal that used to work for an attorney and is willing to preview and check my paperwork for a fee of $40.00 as well as answer any questions I might have and tie up any additional questions I might have before I file.

What do you think is this a good idea? I have to be resourceful...when you have little funds you learn to make things happen.

[freshstart06]

yes, it is a good deal, Paralegal are not suppose to give legal advice but they sure do give good advice (wink)LOL just kidding. The paralegal I used did my paperwork not only works for a BK lawyer but is also in law school. You have to remember, it is not the lawyer's that actually input the paperwork most of the time it is the paralegal. the lawyer's job is to make sure you follow the law and help you with legal advice but it is the paralegal that really does the work, they have to double check the numbers and make sure everything works, they also have to notify the lawyer if there is something wrong. Most of the time when the trustee contacts the lawyer of any problems the paralegal is the one that corrects it. My cousin is a paralegal (I did not us her because i did not want her to know we filed) she basically does all the work.

[lrprn]

Anyways I found a paralegal that used to work for an attorney and is willing to preview and check my paperwork for a fee of $40.00 as well as answer any questions I might have and tie up any additional questions I might have before I file.

What do you think is this a good idea?

When you have a simple, straightforward, no-asset Ch 7 with only consumer debts, then an experienced paralegal can be a big help putting together your forms. If they've been working in a bk attorney office steadily since Oct 05, they have probably picked up a lot of details about how the new bk law is interpreted in your district. However, a paralegal is not a lawyer. If they mess up your forms or miss something you did wrong or accidentally omitted and you file those wrong forms, you are hanging out there on your own. If objections are filed to your case after you file, then you are again hanging out there on your own. Only you can decide if it's worth the risk, IA.

[freshstart06]

Irprn, what can a lawyer do different then you can if a creditor objects??? I heard that creditors love it when we don't use lawyers but I often wondered why??? I have won cases in court without a lawyer before.

From what I have read when a creditor objects usually the lawyer just ignore them unless it gets really serious. I mean if you dont have the money and can prove it they lose anyways unless of course you purchased diamond rings weeks before you filed then it will get dismissed.

But if you can help me with that answer that will be great so I can prepare myself because I don't have a lawyer and I want to do what a lawyer would do, my brother is a lawyer but he is not a BK lawyer and he lives out of state so he can't represent me but he can help me with answers I need.

[CindyLou]

I had a paralegal sit with me and fill out the paperwork. He gave great advice! That's all he does is fill out bk papers for people. 8 hours a day 5 days a week. So he knows what comes back and what doesn't!

[freshstart06]

Cindy, that is what my paralegal has done for me, she has gone way out her way to help me even comfort me during the beginning stages. She even called me at midnight when I was stressing all this for only $200. There is not lawyer out there that would have given me this services for that price. My case is pretty simple no assets, we are slightly over but thanks to payroll deductions we will have no problems. I checked pacer and it appears that the trustee I have all his case accept maybe 4 (and it looks like the debtor dismissed their own case) discharged and closed. There are even people that filed that had income $14,000 to almost $20,000 over the median and they still closed. However, I would warn you if you decided to look up a trustee in pacer be aware that they may have been doing this for years, I found out the hard way, my bill was $28 dollars just see the list of filers.

[lrprn]

fyi....long response....be warned....

Irprn, what can a lawyer do different then you can if a creditor objects??? I heard that creditors love it when we don't use lawyers but I often wondered why??? I have won cases in court without a lawyer before.

Let me answer your question with a question.....if you get an objection to your newly filed Ch 7 case, do you know exactly what to do? What forms are required for the court to address the objection? How to fill them out correctly? Who to file them with? When they have to be filed? How to find and cite court cases that bolster your position? How to write a legal brief that may be required to respond to certain objections? How to force your objector into court to get truthful answers if the objection is based on incorrect information?

If you can answer yes to all those questions, then good for you. 99% of people here couldn't answer these questions without a lot of research and even then would still need to ask questions about how to do any of it in relation to their specific case.

Every one of these questions needed to be addressed in our case, but we had a lawyer to represent us. I couldn't have done it myself, even after 18 months of learning everything about bankruptcy I can and reading about hundreds of filer issues and problems here and on other bk forums.

However, any bk lawyer can answer every one of these questions immediately and create every one of the required documents in a timely fashion as well. That's the difference between using yourself or using a paralegal. You may do fine filing on your own since you have a family member with bk experience and a lawyer in the family who understands the legal bk system or knows how to find the lawyers who can get the answers you need. I sure didn't have either of these, and most of us here don't either.

From what I have read when a creditor objects usually the lawyer just ignore them unless it gets really serious.

If it was only this simple - it isn't. I hope for your sake that your case goes smoothly because if it doesn't, you will discover the hard way that every objection to a bankruptcy needs to be taken very seriously and addressed appropriately within the letter of the law in a timely fashion.

But if you can help me with that answer that will be great so I can prepare myself because I don't have a lawyer and I want to do what a lawyer would do...

That's the rub, freshstart - you aren't a lawyer and unless you go to law school, you can't ever be. Several of the forum moderators and long-term members here have been researching everything they can find about bankruptcy and answering questions about bankruptcy for YEARS. Yet not a single one of them will ever presume to think they know everything a bk lawyer knows. That's why all of the mods remind everyone that we aren't lawyers and can't give legal advice.

When the dust settles, if you decide to file without a lawyer, the bottom line is you are taking a risk. Luckily many filers come out fine. But I say again, you need to understand the risk you are taking before taking it. We've had several members who did a great deal of self-education, then filed pro se and now wish with all their hearts that they had not because they didn't know what to do when creditors or their trustee filed objections. We've had more members who have filed pro se and done just fine with no objections and a quick discharge and closing. When you aren't a lawyer, you can't tell ahead of time which side of the fence you are going to land on.

Just because you can file pro se doesn't mean you should file pro se. Only the person involved can make that decision for themselves. But that person needs to understand the reality and the risk of what they are doing to make the best decision for themselves.

Thanks to everyone still reading. Please add your thoughts about filing pro se or using a lawyer as well.

[lrprn]

When you use an excellent paralegal, they really can be a huge help to a pro se filer. I'm really glad that both you and Cindy found such great help!
In case everyone here wasn't aware, many US bk court opinions establish what a paralegal can do to help a bk filer. According to http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...nk&cd=21&gl=us , a paralegal can do the following and not be considered to be practicing law:

- Typing or transcribing bankruptcy forms that the debtor has prepared alone without assistance.
- Selling forms and any printed material purporting to explain bankruptcy practice and procedure to the public.
- Assisting the debtor with the physical filing of the petition. (bankruptcy preparer may not handle the client's filing fee in any fashion).

Paralegals are *not* allowed to do the following:

- Suggesting or making the exemption choice for a debtor.
- Determining where property and debts would be scheduled.
- Using bankruptcy software to convert a client's raw information into usable form.
- Providing documents to the debtor that explain bankruptcy or that explain how to complete the required information that the preparer is then to transfer to the official forms.
- Directing clients to a particular legal publication or specific pages so that they can attempt to find legal answers on their own.
- Providing clients with a questionnaire that deviates in any way form the official forms.
- Answering questions about post-filing aspects of the bankruptcy process. - Improving upon a prospective debtor's answers or correcting any errors or omissions.
- Preparing post-filing motions, such as motions to dismiss the bankruptcy petition, objections to claims, or responses to the Trustee's Recommendation.
- Advertising as a paralegal or use the title paralegal in any dealings with clients.
- Advising client as to which form of bankruptcy to file.
- Advising clients as to the timing of an anticipated bankruptcy filing.
- Advising clients to dispose of assets prior to filing.
- Advising clients regarding the tax consequences of bankruptcy.
- Advising clients regarding whether a loan taken by a debtor from a 401(k) plan or other retirement account constitutes a "claim" under the code.
- Advising clients regarding whether they may redeem property.
- Advising clients regarding whether they should reaffirm any debts.
- Advising clients regarding the effect of a bankruptcy filing upon a foreclosure and whether the clients may keep their homes.

I wonder how many paralegals actually do things on the "unauthorized practice of law" list?

[freshstart06]

Lrprn, thanks so much for answering. My paralegal will help me if because she does the forms for me. I spoke to her about that, she has been a paralegal for 16 years. I was told my case is pretty simple but you never know they may find something I did not know about but I refuse to worry about any more unless it comes up. Man, I got myself so sick with worry then I realize for what???

I just feel if you have more to lose and you have assets then get a lawyer but I all the people I met that had no asset case had no problems and closed. But it is a personal decision. I was afraid that I would mess up the paperwork because I was so nervous for this reason I decided to at least hire a paralegal with tons of experience. Believe me my emotional state in the beginning was not stable enough for all the paperwork. Now, I am more relaxed and learned a lot but if I had to do it again even as relax as I am today I would still hire a paralegal or have a paralegal look over my stuff. I have heard too many horror stories of paying lawyers tons of money and they do nothing and some cases make the situation worse. Just read some of the post, it outweighs the pro se filers, that right there made me decided to go pro se since I had no assets.

[JRScott]

Sounds like you found a good deal. I hope everything works out. Good Luck

[guzzie]

pro se

hi and hope your case goes well...my first appt with attny was 2.5 hrs.
i could never had done it myself...he has 35 years of bk experience and was willing to let me make payments...but i wish you the best of luck....take your time in getting your petition filled out!!!guzzie