Living w/ parent and can't prove expenses, HELP!

[rilbrianne]

I have not filed ch. 7 yet but am currently filling out the paperwork and getting things in order.... without an attorney (can't afford one).

My husband and I are currently living with my father because we moved back from Florida about 6 months ago and can't afford a place of our own. My husband makes 1200/month. I stay at home, we have a 6 month old and a 3 year old daughter.

My problem is this: We pay rent to my father, we pay half of the utility bill, etc. Obviously, the utility bills are in his name... so how in the world am I supposed to prove my expenses at the 341 meeting?? Do I even have to present proof at the 341 meeting? I have listed these expenses in the appropriate schedule but just don't know if my case will be dropped without receipts being presented.


**Another question.... On the exemption sheet I downloaded from the Court website, there is a check box and it states "Debtor claims the exemptions to which debtor is entitled under 11 U.S.C 522 (b)(2). This page has 2 columns to list exemptions...if I check the box do I still have to list my specific property to be exempt? Again, we almost have no property except an old truck and clothes, and baby furniture.

Any help is GREATLY appreciated... THANK YOU!
Sara

[lrprn]

Welcome to BK Forum, rilbrianne - glad you found us!

My problem is this: We pay rent to my father, we pay half of the utility bill, etc. But, we don't have receipts from him stating that we pay rent and obviously, the utility bills are in his name... so how in the world am I supposed to prove my expenses at the 341 meeting??

If you pay your father the rent and for the utilities with a check or money order, then you use the cancelled checks or money order receipts as proof if you are asked for it. I hope you've been putting some notation that the money is for rent or utilities on whatever payment method you're using.

If you've been paying your father in cash, then unless you can delay fiing for at least 90 days and create a rental contract for him to sign, then you'll just have to explain what you've been doing and hope the trustee believes you.

Even though you are filing pro se (without a lawyer), we still highly recommend that you make appointments for free consultations with 3-4 bankruptcy-specialty lawyers in your area. You can get advice about your questions and will learn a great deal about what's possible in your situation.

**Another question.... On the exemption sheet I downloaded from the Court website...

What state are you filing in? If your husband just started working a few weeks ago, you should delay your filing to go through at least a month's paychecks to ensure you are certain what his new income is before you can file anyway. Are you in a rush to file for some reason?

Again, welcome! Keep asking questions, searching the forum, and reading the stickies. We're here to help any way we can.

[familyof7]

If needed have your father sign a paper documenting that you pay x amt for rent x amt for utilities I did not have to show anything at the 341 except id and ss card so I dont think you will either if you pay cash start paying money orders from now on just in case it is asked of you I am sure the trustee understands this type of situation unless you get a strict trustee at which point having your father signa paper or afadavit should work

[rilbrianne]

I pay cash for rent, We have no credit cards (after screwing up w/ them, we decided not to have any at all) and no checking account.

I'm in a hurry because we gave everything up to get back to Michigan from Florida...we made about 41,000 there but were BROKE. Living expenses were outrageous. And, I was on maternity leave and couldn't pay the rent, probable eviction, etc. We voluntarily turned in two new vehicles and they are threatening to sue which will cause even more debt.... not to mention garnishment of (what I've been told) 42% of a measly $1200/month income. We aren't bad people, I was a felony secretary at the State attorneys office in Florida but we couldn't afford the rent, 2 vehicle payments and insurance and 2 kids in daycare. So we gave it all up and moved back here... now into parents home until things start looking up again. We just can't afford to lose half a paycheck to garnishment. We are struggling as it is.

I'm sorry, I have taken the means test and have talked to one attorney but they even lied to me saying that you have to file bankruptcy online now...which is not true but how else was he going to get my money? What a jerk.

[lrprn]

I know that this is all very overwhelming right now, but do your best to slow down for just a bit and think through what you need to do without letting your emotions cloud your decisions. Filing bankruptcy needs to be a cold, hard financial decision looking for what is going to give you and your family the best long-term result and help you return to and stay in financial health.

We voluntarily turned in two new vehicles and they are threatening to sue which will cause even more debt.... not to mention garnishment of (what I've been told) 42% of a measly $1200/month income.

If your car lenders haven't even gone to court yet, it's going to take some time (at least a few months) to get a judgment to garnish wages. This isn't going to happen next week.

If your car loans were done in Florida, then since you moved so recently, your husband's wages may not be able to be garnished. "Wages of the head of a family are exempt from garnishment unless the person's net wages are more than $500 per week and the person has agreed in writing to allow wages to be taken to pay the debt." For more details about Florida wage garnishment (and the maximum that can be garnished in Florida is only 25%, by the way), see http://www.bcsalliance.com/debt1_florida.html

If because you've moved to Michigan, Michigan's wage garnishment law applies, then the maximum that can be garnished is also just 25% - see http://www.bcsalliance.com/debt1_michigan.html

The uncertainty about which state garnishment law will be imposed in your case is yet another reason to schedule free consultations with several bk lawyers in your area.

We aren't bad people, ... We just can't afford to lose half a paycheck to garnishment. We are struggling as it is.

We know you aren't bad people...don't worry about that. We all have our own sad stories to tell that are much like your own. Although waiting is difficult, you should commit yourselves to make the best decision for your long-term financial well-being. Don't allow your emotions to make a quick financial start cloud doing the right thing for yourselves. Get the free consultations with 3-4 bk lawyers in your area of Michigan and talk over what's the best thing to do and when to do it. Making decisions with reliable legal information is always the best way to go.

...have talked to one attorney but they even lied to me saying that you have to file bankruptcy online now...which is not true but how else was he going to get my money? What a jerk.

Of course, I wasn't there to hear, but perhaps the lawyer was explaining that he/she would file your case online when the time came? Most bk attorneys file electronically now rather than sending in paper as you will have to if you file pro se. Just a thought. Talk to several more lawyers before you send in your papers. You'll be glad you did.

[ProSefromCA]

Hi rilbrianne,

I know everything seems overwhelming at first, but I think you will find a lot of worries you have no worry at all.

First, you don't have to worry so much about your expenses. What is important is your INCOME. It sounds like you are definitely under the median household income for your state. Most filers are. That means you AUTOMATICALLY qualify for Chpt. 7. The trustee will not scrutinize how your money is spent. Just make sure that anyone working (if anyone) has 60 days worth of wage stubs. What I highly recommend, as I'm filing pro se myself, is that you spend $25 for the Chpt. 7 book from Nolo.com. I got the e-book PDF version. It's totally worth it in place of a lawyer, possibly better, since I care the most about my own case. Going page by page is simple, and it's plain English instructions with examples. I felt totally confident asking questions when I visited my court for specific local filing format. Everything has been easier than I thought. To answer your other question, yes, you need to cite the law for each exemption. The book has all the updated state law citations in the appendix. I did that just today in fact.

[rilbrianne]

Thank you all so much

Your right, I am kind of rushing this. It does seem that this is the right way to go because it would be next to impossible to pay it all back any time soon. I will take your advice and get a consultation. When the creditors threatened to sue, they told me Michigan has the highest rate for garnishment at 42% and it scared me so much that I dove into the idea of bankruptcy. Obviously, that was the whole point...to scare me... into paying. My husband makes about 380 each week, before tax deduction (approx. 17%). Approx. 18,000/year, we have estimated.

And just for note: one vehicle was leased in Michigan and the other bought in Florida - they were both voluntarily surrendered and sold at auction. We are awaiting suit for the balance.

I also greatly appreciate the idea of the Nolo book, I agree... only you can care enough about your case to exhaust all efforts and make sure everything is done correctly and in a timely manner. It is wonderful to know that people out there are in the same boat and that we can come together to help each other.
I'll be back to update how it's coming...

You really don't know how much it means to me that you took the time to help (with advice and links, etc.) You took the time to find the information and gave your own personal advice from experience. Thank you so much for understanding and caring so much. God Bless you all.