Chapter 7 Odds Look Good!

[Keebler]

Looking through data I collected using PACER, I've found some comforting statistics...

Since October 2005 there have been more than 700 Chapter 7 cases filed and settled in El Paso County in West Texas.

- Only 1% of the cases are dismissed.
- Only 2% of the cases filed have assets.
- 4% of the cases are closed without being Discharged or Dismissed. (A third of these due to failure to complete Finincial Management Course)

- The fastest time to Discharge is 90 Days.
- 50% of all cases are Discharged in 108 Days and Closed in 111 Days.
- Within 180 Days, 93% of the cases are settled and 90% closed.

[lrprn]

So much for all the fraud accusations that were the main reason for the bk law to be modified back in 2005. No evidence of that here, and in a bk-friendly state like Texas to boot.

Please tell me that you didn't compile these stats by looking at all these cases yourself, because if you did, your PACER bill is going to be out of sight for this quarter! ;) Seriously, hope your own Ch 7 case goes as smoothly as your area's stats indicate the vast majority do!

[Keebler]

So much for all the fraud accusations that were the main reason for the bk law to be modified back in 2005. No evidence of that here, and in a bk-friendly state like Texas to boot.

Please tell me that you didn't compile these stats by looking at all these cases yourself, because if you did, your PACER bill is going to be out of sight for this quarter! ;) Seriously, hope your own Ch 7 case goes as smoothly as your area's stats indicate the vast majority do!

I did compile these stats myself by running a report of all cases within a certain range of dates. I used Excel to juggle the data around and make it easier to see the patterns. I know the report was pretty long but I haven't spent $20 yet.

I'm sorting the cases and now I'll go back and look at the seven that were discharged to see what happened. Five say "Dismissed for Other Reason" and one says "Dismissed for Failure to File Information". Only one has no disposition shown so I'll plan on pulling the details of that case to see what happened there.

28 cases show closed but don't show a data for Dismissed or Discharged. Those ones are a little more confusing. Eight of those show "Discharge Withheld for Failure to Submit Cert of Instructional Course for Personal Financial Mgmt" and that shouldn't effect me. Twenty show "Discharge Not Applicable" and I'm not sure what that means.

Beyond the settled cases, there's 12 cases with assets that haven't been settled yet and half of them were filed more than a Year ago! There's another six without assets that are still open after more than a Year. Maybe those deserve a quick look.

I wish I could find an economical way to see which attorneys were getting the cases but I don't see how unless I look at each case.

[lrprn]

I did compile these stats myself by running a report of all cases within a certain range of dates. I used Excel to juggle the data around and make it easier to see the patterns.

Wow! Creating these stats yourself shows tremendous desire to succeed in your bk, keebler - good for you! Hope the PACER bill isn't too steep.

I wish I could find an economical way to see which attorneys were getting the cases but I don't see how unless I look at each case.

One thing you can do is visit your bk district's court docket online. Often you can see the bankruptcy court schedule for the next several weeks up to several months. The lawyers' names show up with each scheduled 341 or other bk-related hearings so you can see who's filing the most cases in your area at least. Then you can go to PACER with a specific name and date range in mind to keep the PACER bill under control. Just a thought - others here may have ideas to share as well.

[Keebler]

... One thing you can do is visit your bk district's court docket online. Often you can see the bankruptcy court schedule for the next several weeks up to several months. The lawyers' names show up with each scheduled 341 or other bk-related hearings so you can see who's filing the most cases in your area at least. Then you can go to PACER with a specific name and date range in mind to keep the PACER bill under control. Just a thought - others here may have ideas to share as well.

I wish I could do that but I haven't found anything! Maybe you can find it for me and send me a link. (El Paso County in West Texas)

Thanks!

(I'd share the data I've collected with anyone else that's interested.)

[lrprn]

Maybe you can find it for me and send me a link. (El Paso County in West Texas)

Here you go - http://www.txwb.uscourts.gov/informa...uptcy_info.htm

Just click on the Court Calendars link then click on each judge's date(s) to see a listing of the scheduled cases with the lawyers representing each debtor for each. Looks like they even list the PACER number at the start of each case!

[Keebler]

Here you go - http://www.txwb.uscourts.gov/informa...uptcy_info.htm

Just click on the Court Calendars link then click on each judge's date(s) to see a listing of the scheduled cases with the lawyers representing each debtor for each. Looks like they even list the PACER number at the start of each case!

Outstanding Work! Thank you.

I may have seen this one time before and never clicked over to the calender link.

From my PACER report I can see that there's only two Judges for this county. The strange part is how there's only a calender for one of them. McGuire seems to handle Chapter 13 while there's a Judge Kelly that handles Chapter 7 along with McGuire. I wonder why there's no calender for Judge Kelly.

There's not much for history here so I'll plan on grabbing the calender every day for a while and see what trend develops.

[Keebler]

Here's the latest thanks to your help finding the calendar...

I captured the contents of a couple dozen web pages and ended up with an Excel spreadsheet nearly 10,000 lines long. I took several hours to re-organized the mess and throw out the cases within my district but outside of my county. In the end there were almost 1,000 hearings held in my county over the last six months. I then eliminated all multiple hearings on the same case so I was able to see just the attorneys once per case. In the end it was down to 658 individual cases. The counts for each attorney are listed below...

#1
J Tanzy -- Total: (15) Ch7: (0) Ch13: (15)
E Borrego -- Total: (251) Ch7: (22) Ch13: (229)
M Flores -- Total: (145) Ch7: (4) Ch13: (141)

#2
C Johnson -- Total: (43) Ch7: (4) Ch13: (39)
R Vasquez -- Total: (50) Ch7: (6) Ch13: (44)

#3
S Ramirez -- Total: (44) Ch7: (4) Ch13: (40)

#4
D Leslie -- Total: (13) Ch7: (4) Ch13: (9)
C Lay -- Total: (20) Ch7: (4) Ch13: (16)

#5
JT Southern -- Total: (33) Ch7: (1) Ch13: (32)

#6
EP Bud Kirk -- Total: (19) Ch7: (0) Ch13: (18)

#7
S Trevino -- Total: (11) Ch7: (2) Ch13: (9)

#8
S Diamond -- Total: (1) Ch7: (0) Ch13: (1)

#9
PRO SE -- Total: (10) Ch7: (2) Ch13: (8)

#10
C Haugland -- Total: (2) Ch7: (1) Ch13: (1) Businesses Only

#11
C Miranda -- Total: (1) Ch7: (1) Ch13: (0) Businesses Only


I don't trust the results completely because according to PACER the chapter 7 versus chapter 13 ratio is about 40% / 60% and I've got way too many chapter 13 cases in my results. I can see cases closed on PACER within the time frame of my calendars but no mention of any hearings at all.

Anyway, it's already enough to see which attorneys I think I'll avoid!

[Keebler]

I narrowed the list down to three choices and made appointments on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday this week.

I ruled out #10 and #11 because they had only handled business cases and not too many at that.

#5, #6, #7 and #8 had too few Chapter 7's and looked to be the Chapter 13 pushers in town. A look at Yellow Page advertisements and websites seemed to support this theory too.

#2, #3 and #4 had a pleasant number of cases and seemed to have a reasonable ratio of Chapter 7 and Chapter 13 cases.

I ruled out #1 because it's the big bankruptcy firm in town that has too many commercials on daytime TV.

I also checked out websites and Yellow Page ads to see what I could see. I noticed some other attorneys but figured that anyone who hadn't appeared on the Court Calendar at least once in six months didn't deserve consideration.

[Keebler]

I visited with my third choice this afternoon. This firm had a modest number of cases but I noticed a few clues. The first clues were a website that was dead and a full-page Yellow Page advertisement. Probably an older place still clinging on to business through people who file on short notice.

I wasn't disappointed when I met with the attorney who looked to be near retirement age. (To be polite.)

It seemed that I knew and understood more of the fine points of planning for bankruptcy than he felt he needed to share. In pouring over my situation myself I had identified a few issues that I though would be the tough ones but he didn't seem to care.

I have a third vehicle that I can't keep and I asked about selling it. He said it didn't mater and I'd probably be able to keep it anyway but he wasn't interested in explaining how.

I also asked about stopping payments and also stopping credit use and he really didn't seem to think it mattered.

I don't know if his lack of attention to the details were because of his style, or if it was a reflection of a district where virtually nobody gets turned down.

His charges were just over $1,000 and included the court costs. He expects payment in full up front.

[Keebler]

Went and saw the second and third attorneys and found more of what I expected. Prices quoted were $775, $900 and $1,200 plus court costs of $300.

All of the attorneys were "well seasoned" and appeared to be close to retirement age or beyond.

The most expensive one of the three advertises the most on TV and had an office more like a clinic. (Not in a good way.) The receptionist behind a sliding window demanded my Driver's License and Social Security card even though I questioned why it was necessary for a consultation. He then stuffed a clip board in my hand and insisted I fill out all of the information (front and back) and then he'd return my ID cards. I waited 20 Minutes past my appointment before I saw the attorney. The first order of business was to have me sign an agreement that made it clear that the first visit was no charge and subsequent visits would incur a charge. The attorney spent most of the hour collecting my finincial information even though I made it clear that it was early in the process and I had time to be more accurate on a subsequent visit. Toward the end he was kind enough to point out that chapter 13 and chapter 7 were both options for me. In fact, he divided up cases based on my ability to pay his fee because Chapter 13 is the no-money-up-front plan and Chapter 7 needs to be pre-paid. Anyway, it was only the last precious minutes where I was able to ask about the special circumstances of my case and the best plan for filing. I think this place is good for the clueless among us, but not that good for me.

From all I've seen, I like the middle one best.

The next step will be to use PACER to see how past cases have gone for the attorney I like best. The trick is to get information without racking up too many pages.

[lrprn]

Keebler, I'm making you our poster child for bk lawyer investigation! Nice work doing everything you can to make sure you have the best lawyer possible! All of this will pay off in spades, especially if your case has a few "gray" areas.

[Keebler]

Keebler, I'm making you our poster child for bk lawyer investigation! Nice work doing everything you can to make sure you have the best lawyer possible! All of this will pay off in spades, especially if your case has a few "gray" areas.

And I haven't even mentioned the part where I'm using QuickBooks to capture all of my transactions on all of my accounts for the last 12 to 18 Months! I'll be able to fill out the paperwork down to the penny and have plenty of documentation to support my figures.

There are some grey areas I'm a little bit worried about. It's probably being a bit obsessive but it feels good to feel like I'm almost in control for a change.

[Keebler]

I don't know how it slipped past me, but all of the clues make sense. The attorney I chose is actually a Trustee -- doh!

I think I like my choice even better now.

The only bad part is how I sent him an e-mail yesterday and he hasn't replied. I guess he's not the most technologically advanced guy, but I wish I didn't need to call him all the time. I'll wait and give him some time and hopefully he'll get back to me.

[lrprn]

The only bad part is how I sent him an e-mail yesterday and he hasn't replied. I guess he's not the most technologically advanced guy, but I wish I didn't need to call him all the time. I'll wait and give him some time and hopefully he'll get back to me.

If your lawyer is a practicing trustee, then he's going to be tied up in court on certain days every week. Take a look at your local bk court schedule to see when those days are. Also trustees are known to take personal days off and take vacations too

I always give our lawyer a week to respond to anything I send him by email. If I need an answer faster than that, then I call the office and ask when a good time is to call him.