How do you deal with the guilt?

[somnolence]

I don't feel guilty about any of the stuff that's been sent to collections, because those places are soul sucking thieves anyway. But a lot of the creditors are doctors bills that have not been charged off, and I feel terrible because they gave me really good care, and have worked with me on payments that I just can't afford to make anymore, and never called me or harassed me, and i do not like knowing that they will not get paid. At least they got their percent from insurance, but I still feel bad. I am tempted to call the billing depts and ask them to charge it off, but i don't even know if they would, and it kind of seems like it would come around and bit me in the ass. Ugh.

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

You are making an important BUSINESS decision in your life. In the end the creditors DONT CARE about YOUR FEELINGS - they want THEIR MONEY ! Creditors are still making out BILLIONS of $$$ in profit every year. The doctors, the lawyers, the bankers what have you MAKE their money if not from you than from SOMEONE. I'm sure there is a tax break for the charge offs for them.

Take a deep breathe and think "IT'S ALL ABOUT ME NOW," take care of YOU and YOUR NEEDS and think about your financial future NOT others.

Best of Luck, Catchmeifyoucan

I just wanted to add when I filed BK 12 years ago I added my DENTIST on the list and that son of gun hit my old man up (who is now 88) for the funds! Really really really disgusted me! My poor old dad didn't know any better than and I felt really bad FOR MY DAD that is!

[DeadManCrawling]

At least they got their percent from insurance, but I still feel bad. I am tempted to call the billing depts and ask them to charge it off, but i don't even know if they would, and it kind of seems like it would come around and bit me in the ass. Ugh.

Their portion from insurance generally covers quite a bit in the way of payments. There are also other considerations. Most of them have probably "broken even" or made a profit depending on the number of visits you had. Assuming you had copays and craploads of tests, it is very likely they have already collected more from insurance than the portions you owe.

There is nothing to keep you from affirming a debt and keeping it to pay yourself. I doubt anyone here (or any attorney) would suggest such a thing.

I am going to affirm ONE medical debt, for my family doctor, who has been extremely good to me, if I can't pay him prior to filing. The total amount is only a couple hundred dollars, but I plan to take my family to him in future years, and truly, he is somewhat of a friend, aside from being our Dr.

However, I have several additional providers who won't get paid.

Part of the medical "scheme" is that Dr's often issue referrals to other DR's like candy, which accomplishes a few goals for them, both personal and professional. First, they will generally send you to see any possible specialist they can for tests, scans, bloodwork, etc. This helps them guard against malpractice suits by covering all their bases. It also "spreads the money" among colleagues they may RECEIVE referrals from. Also, they have to see these colleagues at conferences, etc. This is not necessarily abusing your checkbook. It makes good sense to check everything they possibly can, both for your health and their liability.

In Florida we have a large number of doctors who actually practice without malpractice insurance, which is legal (moral or ethical, I don't know), Insurance coverage for one Oncologist in my neighborhood-a man I know and converse with at barbecues and such, has gone from 45k per year to 500k per year. He has never been sued, but that is always on their minds.

Many doctors have been sued and had judgements against them for mistakes that are genuinely honest and could have been made by anyone. Others are evil scum who practice without regard to patients health at all and deserve everything they get in suits.

In general I think Dr's, though they might average tons more income than the rest of us, also carry enormous risks in doing what they do.

Bankruptcy due to medical reasons is not at all uncommon. In fact, the doctors I know are so used to it, it just doesn't seem to affect them.

If you live in an extremely small town situation, there would of course be differing circumstances.

Finally, do a little research. That doctors group or provider or hospital might itsel be owned by a large public corporation which, much like MBNA or Chase, has a chargeoff policy. We have a little hospital I have been to before for a couple issues. It is run just like a small town mom and pop sort of place, with limited beds and extremely attentive service. Turns out they are owned by HCA, the biggest health racketeering publicly traded company in America. HCA regularly comes under fire for everything from accounting issues to billing and general patient care.

I have had no problem with them, but in the long run, my bills really don't affect the specific doctors as much as they do this medical behemoth that makes billions in profit each year.

Just my thoughts, which as usual, may be entirely useless

DMC

[somnolence]

Thanks for the dose of reality, and I know you are right. I probably would affirm the debt and try to pay it off, only it's the whole reason behind my filing in the first place. Most of the charged off stuff is near or past the 6 year limit on debt collection in this state. And the majority of my doctors are salaried, so it's not as if THEY didn't get paid.

The one that I still feel bad about is my dentist, because he has his own practice, and they haven't even mailed me a bill, let alone tried to collect in any way, and he was REALLY nice too. They all were. I don't have a long standing relationship with them though, nor am I going to return because I'll be moving to a new area afterwards. But they did get a lot from my insurance at least.

[juststupid]

Thanks for the dose of reality, and I know you are right. I probably would affirm the debt and try to pay it off, only it's the whole reason behind my filing in the first place. Most of the charged off stuff is near or past the 6 year limit on debt collection in this state. And the majority of my doctors are salaried, so it's not as if THEY didn't get paid.

The one that I still feel bad about is my dentist, because he has his own practice, and they haven't even mailed me a bill, let alone tried to collect in any way, and he was REALLY nice too. They all were. I don't have a long standing relationship with them though, nor am I going to return because I'll be moving to a new area afterwards. But they did get a lot from my insurance at least.

Alot of my debt is from medical bills. When I had my first son I didn't have insurance, and I also had to have a c-section. That came out to be a $10k bill. That I coudn't possibly pay. Then I had my second son, another c-section. This time I had insurance. but still got sacked with a $3k bill. One income, and 2 small kids we just don't have that type of money. I feel bad that my ob won't get all her money, but she got a pretty hefty amount from the insurance.

I understand feeling bad. But if the medical bills got you in this situation, why would you reaffirm the debt? And why file bk? If your going to file, you should just put that on and let it get discharged. No point in getting a fresh start only to still have the mdeical debt that took you into bankrutcy staring at you.

[alh]

Don't reaffirm it if you want to pay it. Just pay them as you can. You can still pay them without reaffirming, but if something else happens in the future, you are not legally liable. Don't File BK then sign papers to make the discharge worthless. I

[DeadManCrawling]

Don't reaffirm it if you want to pay it. Just pay them as you can. You can still pay them without reaffirming, but if something else happens in the future, you are not legally liable. Don't File BK then sign papers to make the discharge worthless. I

Great answer. And correct. In my case, it's a matter of a long personal relationship, and only includes a couple hudnred bucks. I will likely have him paid before I file, but for me, reaffirming 200 bucks is a sign of good faith and friendship to my Dr.

You certainly CAN pay it after BK, reaffirmed or not. Many people discover that all that "extra cash" they THOUGHT they would have after BK simply isn't there.

My family has suffered greatly-skipped medical appointments, car repairs, household maintenance, clothing-all to pay CC's. Now all that money that went to creditors will be used to catch up on the essentials. We shouldn't have skipped vital things like that in the first place.

Perhaps you can list the debt, DONT reaffirm. Wait a couple months and see how your finances stack up. THEN, if you still feel compelled to pay, you can pretty much do so in any increment you want. Maybe include a letter telling the dentist how much you appreciated his work, and that you will pay what you can as time and finances allow.

He may surprise you and say "Thanks, but I already wrote it off, and receive a tax credit for doing so."

[JollyGG]

While I was in college I spent a month shadowing a pediatrician. I remember one day the doctor had just come out of a patient room and was charting. The nurse slid up to him and asked if he had noticed the credit rating in the chart, it was very low. He hadn't, but he checked real quick, handed the chart back to the nurse and told her not to charge them.
He later explained to me that what he had done was technically illegal, but who would know.
Doctor’s understand that things like bankruptcy and money problems happen. A certain percentage of loss is factored into the budget.

[tradewiz50]

Guilt? Please. There making money of your BK with a tax write off for themselves. Try to sleep easier at night .

[somnolence]

Oh, there is no way I'd reaffirm any of them. I can't pay them. I just wish I *could* pay them. I guess anybody who has to file BK wishes they could just pay it though.

[lrprn]

I guess anybody who has to file BK wishes they could just pay it though.

There's a old thread here in the forum that asked if you could pay back just one non-secured creditor, who would it be? Some posters listed their doctor or dentist, or one credit card that didn't increase their APR and didn't harrass them when they couldn't pay. However, at that time most said they wouldn't pay back anyone even if they could.

[somnolence]

Hmm, I am going through all my old bills and I never got one from the dentist. I am now wondering if Medicaid actually picked up the balance? I had it then, and they said they'd file it for me but that it was very unlikely they'd pay... but, I don't know. They are closed friday so i'll have to wait till monday to call and see what is up with that. If that bill was taken care of I'd feel much much better.

[CindyLou]

The credit rating is not and has never been in a medical chart for any reason. The only financial info is the place of employment and the insurance a carrier.

[JollyGG]

The credit rating is not and has never been in a medical chart for any reason. The only financial info is the place of employment and the insurance a carrier.

Well I didn't imagine the exchange, I was standing right there. So obviously the nurse had access to this woman's credit rating somehow. Do remember, this was in 1998 so perhaps things have changed over the years or perhaps this clinic did things strangly.
My point was that the likelyhood that she couldn't pay really was no big deal to the doctor and he actually chose not to bill her.

[lrprn]

Well I didn't imagine the exchange, I was standing right there. So obviously the nurse had access to this woman's credit rating somehow.

Jolly, the nurse you overheard make the comment most likely assumed that the patient's credit rating was bad because of something she saw in the chart. In over 30 years working in hospitals as a critical care nurse, I've never seen a credit rating noted on any patient, but I have seen many notations about a patient's ability to pay and occasionally a mention that they were in bankruptcy with a request to keep patient care costs as low as possible. Hospitals don't pull credit ratings - they rely on finding out what kind of insurance coverage a patient has to see if the patient will be able to pay their bills. If they suspect the patient is going to have a problem (self-pay is always a red flag), the hospital will typically have someone from their financial department meet with the patient or their family to work out payment options before the patient is discharged.

Just don't want anyone here to think that when you go into the hospital, they will pull your credit rating - they don't - and the hospital will not base your care on your credit rating either.