Bad news for me.

[BKTango]

I had a gut feeling something was going to go wrong with our mortgage, it never fails. Our mortgage was with Washington Mutual when we began our bk, Wells Fargo bought it out right at the time we had just signed our reaffirmation papers. Now Wells Fargo is saying we never reaffirmed but we have been making our payments on time. I contacted our lawyer and was told that my husband and myself and him all signed the agreement, which we did (I have a copy of the affirmation agreement), it was then mailed back to the attorney's for Washington Mutual as instructed by them to sign and file with court (they wanted to file it). Well that's when Wells Fargo came in and apparently someone dropped the ball and sat on it or didn't transfer it over because according to the clerk of the court whom I just spoke to it was never filed with the court!!!! My lord I am so freaking mad right now. I am terrified. We have been making our mortgage payments on time as we always have, but I am scared to death that they will take our home because of their error. Can they do that? Or if we continue to make our payments will they just leave us alone? Ugh I feel like crying. I am scared and just when I thought my nightmare was over.

[reallynervous]

BKTango,

I am so sorry this is happening. I wish I knew the answer to your question, but I don't. It would seem to me that you filed the paperwork correctly on your end.

I just wanted to send you some hugs. I am sorry for your worries right when you are ready to move ahead.

Hopefully someone who knows more than me can set your mind at ease soon!

reallynervous

[JollyGG]

My mortage is with Wells Fargo (always has been). I don't know what to make of it but I can share my experience with reafirming through them.

They did not send me any reafirmation paperwork. Finally, I called about a week and half before my last day for objection. They said that they never sent anything because I never requested it. I asked them to please send a reaffirmation agreement ASAP. They took about a week to send it to my lawyer after that. Their letter said that they were sending the signed reafirmation and it would be our responsiblity to file it. There policy is not to file them. However, it was not signed. I signed it and my lawyer spent the next half a week trying to get them to sign it so he could file it. He would reach someone on the phone, they would give him a fax number and tell him someone would sign it and send it right back. Nothing would happen and he would repeat the above. Finally he got it signed and filed on our last day for objections.

The whole time they continued my direct debt payments. When I called to ask about the reafirmation I asked if those would continue. They said they would continue until I requested the payments be stopped.

As I said I don't know what to make of this.

It seems that even though the laws have changed they still seem to allow ride-through. Or at least that is what my experience would lead me to belive. Others may have a different take on the situation.

[BKOnce]

When I filed Chapter 23 in 2003, I also had Wells Fargo mortgage continued to withdraw payments from bank online without any reaffirmation with them at all. I guess I were never late on any month so they never try to forclose or did not say anything until I were out of C13 in 2006. Then I refinanced and got out of Wells Fargo and they sent me a thank you letter.

So I guess your situation is different from mine because chapter 7 always require "reafirmation" paper on file !?

[Hagar100]

I'm experiencing about the same thing.

I also had my mortgage with WaMu at the time of filing BK (9/06) and did sign the form indicating my intention to reaffirm with them. Wells Fargo purchased our mortgage from WaMu shortly thereafter and I received two letters from them in December which indicated that our account was in arrears, including one that indicated that we owed over $600.00! Our mortgage payment is taken directly from my checking account and has never been late so I contacted WF and was told by three different people our mortgage was A-OK, had never been missed or late, and to disregard the letters as they were sent by mistake.

In Feb of this year I began checking my credit reports and noticed that WF was not reporting my mortgage account at all, even though WaMU had reported "No Data" for Sept & Oct of 2006 and then reported "OK" for Nov, which is the last month that they owned the account, which indicates to me that WaMu did receive and recognize the reaffirmation.

I contacted WF to find out what was going on and was told that our mortgage was not reaffirmed and that they wouldn't report to the CA's until it was reaffirmed (actually I was told several different things by several different persons). I told the rep that I was holding the the reaffirmation form in my hand as we spoke and that I also had the creditor matrix which indicated that WaMu had received mailings from the BK court. The rep told me to fax this paperwork to him and that this should take care of the matter, although the fax number he provided turned out to be a non-functioning number. I called back and, after once again going through all of the BS required before you can speak with an actual person, was provided with a working fax number and was told to check back with them in about a week.

We'll see how it turns out but I'm not too worried as I only owe $6300 on my mortgage and it is scheduled to be paid off in June of 2008. If they mess me around too badly, I'm sure that I can arrange to pay in off much more quickly.

[aa06a47]

I had a gut feeling something was going to go wrong with our mortgage, it never fails. Our mortgage was with Washington Mutual when we began our bk, Wells Fargo bought it out right at the time we had just signed our reaffirmation papers. Now Wells Fargo is saying we never reaffirmed but we have been making our payments on time. I contacted our lawyer and was told that my husband and myself and him all signed the agreement, which we did (I have a copy of the affirmation agreement), it was then mailed back to the attorney's for Washington Mutual as instructed by them to sign and file with court (they wanted to file it). Well that's when Wells Fargo came in and apparently someone dropped the ball and sat on it or didn't transfer it over because according to the clerk of the court whom I just spoke to it was never filed with the court!!!! My lord I am so freaking mad right now. I am terrified. We have been making our mortgage payments on time as we always have, but I am scared to death that they will take our home because of their error. Can they do that? Or if we continue to make our payments will they just leave us alone? Ugh I feel like crying. I am scared and just when I thought my nightmare was over.

Secured debt does not have to be reaffirmed in bk and many attorney's recommend you don't reaffirm in case something goes wrong during the plan. As long as you make the payments, Wells Fargo cannot take the property. Utilize direct draft payments if available as this creates a paper trail (and third party verification) that the payments were made on time.

[BKTango]

Thank you all for the replies, I am supposed to call Wells Fargo back on Thursday to see if they received the faxed copy of our reaffirmation agreement, although it won't matter too much now that the mortgage company's lawyer screwed up and didn't file it. I did contact Wells Fargo again yesterday and they told me that as long as we were never late they wouldn't "sieze" the property. So I guess we better never be late. I am going to see about being able to make my payment at my local branch (we have 3) that way I can get a receipt each time and if I can't since now I am stuck in default department hell, even though we have never been a day late in the 5 yrs we've owned this house I will then get them to auto draft it from our account. I am still so pissed off it's unbelievable. We had done our part and because of a mortgage companies forgetfullness we are in this mess. My husband is looking at a brighter side of it, (he can always do that, I can't, I see the worst.) and thinking this may be a blessing in disguise. Our lawyer agreed with him on that, but still all I can think of is someone "forgetting" to post a payment "on time" and that's it we are screwed. It amazes me how they change the laws and they have these standards they have to go by, but but it seems that the mortgage lenders, trustees or whomever half the time don't even know how to comply to them, and it's us regular folks that get the shaft.

[BKTango]

Update...

I just called Wells Fargo again, to double check to see if I could make my payments in person. I had an interesting conversation with the young man on the phone. I am not sure if he just yanked my chain or was actually telling the truth and being considerate of the situation.

He told me that Wells Fargo really doesn't "recognize" reaffirmation agreements, nor do they generally seek out to have their customers sign them. He said to them the only difference between reaffirming and not is simply either staying in the default department and it not being reported to the cra's or going back to regular billing department and it being reported again as usual to the cra's. I said well technically we reaffirmed as I have the paperwork right here in front of me, but legally the lawyers for the mortgage company didn't get it filed with the court so if I was ever late what would happen. He said that Wells Fargo is not in the business of taking people's homes for no reason, unless we defaulted for 90 days straight that's when they would pursue foreclosure proceedings. Even if we were late they would still try to work with us to make up that payment before that happened. He said nothing changes on that, even without the reaffirmation, to them that changes nothing other than what I mentioned above.

So I don't know, he could have simply been blowing smoke up my rear. I have been told now on three occasions by them that unless we default the loan they would not take our home. I have half a mind to try to reopen my case just to correct this matter, but I don't know. I am still terrified that I could sit here making payments and in 5 years they just up and want the house back. Or I could sit here and keep making my payments and nothing ever happen until it's paid off as I am sure many have done before me, those that were allowed to ride through anyway. My lawyer is strongly against reaffirming in the first place, so he just kept saying, "consider their mistake as shooting themselves in the foot" My husband feels the same way. I guess I see it as the law does, unless you reaffirm, the creditor can at any time take that property. But there does seem to be a gray area of as long as you keep making your payments on time they can't. It's all too darn confusing. I mean if that's the case then why make reaffriming a big deal under the new law in the first place? I sit here wondering....should I reopen to do this, or leave it alone...my husband wants to just leave it as it is, and make our payments on time, and next year start hammering at it to try to get it paid off maybe a little quicker than 25 years from now.

[petrified]

it is a blessing.....

....that WF did not process your reaffirmation. The reason why? Because if you do default and they do take the house, the mortgage is discharged in bankruptcy and they cannot come after you for the deficiency balance.

However, as you have been advised, if you keep making your payments on time then they will not take your house.

If they ever did come for the house (don't see why they would.....) you might have a good case to fight them since it seems to be their practice to deliberately ignore reaffirmation agreements.

If I were you, I would make sure the payments are ALWAYS on time and as soon as you can qualify for a refinance, refinance with another company so that you do not have this worry hanging over your head.

Don't reopen your case. You are fine. Relax and think happy thoughts!

P

[aa06a47]

I mail my first and second mortgages on the 25th of each month. My primary mortgage company never cashed the check until the 10th day of the month, the second mortgage company cashes and post it usually within 3 days. The practice of the first mortgage company does worry me, but I do have proof of the mailings. (I was using direct payment with them, but when I filed BK, I couldn't do the auto draft anymore)