Case Update

[kristineco]

Hi all. I haven't written here in quite a while but i want to bring you all updated on my case. It has been really tricky. I filed a chapter 7 pro-se back in March 2006. The trustee objected and filed a motion for abuse of the means test. I got a lawyer and we filed our response to it which was that i did not include all my expenses in the original means test and that i should be able to qualify for a chapter 7. This was back in June 2006.

Now it is Feb 2007 almost going on a year. Well let me tell you it was a heck of a week! I had a deposition with the US Trustee attorney and her bankruptcy analyst that lasted about three hours. They drilled me about every expense and deposit on my bank statements and listed in my petition. They dragged my live-in spouse into it too. It was a grueling three hours. My lawyer argued that if all my expenses were put into the chapter 7 means test calculations there would only be enough disposable income left over to pay him. The Trustee attorney and her bankrupcy analyst came back saying that i should be able to pay $1100 a month for 60 months. What a flipping joke! I say i should have listened and not filed pro-se in the first place. Then i may not be in this mess. I do not know what to do. I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. I hope my lawyer can work some magic because there is a HUGE difference between what they think i can pay and what i can actually pay.

Now i am panicking like crazy!

Thanks for listening to me rant. And a piece of advice....the US trustee will try to get every penny out of you by going by a formula not your actual expenses. I would think really hard about filing pro-se in this post BK Law world. I didn't and now i am in a real mess.

Kristine

[down @ out]

Filing Bankruptcy pro-se

Sorry to hear about all of your grief. Seems like those folks are just mean spirited and not really concerned about the reality of your situation.

Have to say the fear of the new laws and the jacking up of interest rates prompted me to file bankruptcy before the law changed. I did file pro-se and everything went fine but I did spend a lot of time researching bankruptcy, attending 341 hearings etc before I took the plunge.

I do agree with you that an attorney is a good idea under the new law but it seems to me that folks should educate themselves about this whole mess before they jump in.

What I came to believe is that most of the attorney`s that practice bankruptcy law are just as evil or incompentent as the trustees and their lackeys.

Basically trust no one and be prepared for anything. I would not believe anyone in this process. They are all a bunch of thugs.

Good luck.

[lrprn]

Kristenco, so sorry to hear about what's happened in your case, and I pray that your attorney will be able to successfully guide you through the mess you find yourself in now. Please keep us posted on how things are going, and remember that we're here for support any time you need it.

And down @ out, you said "What I came to believe is that most of the attorney`s that practice bankruptcy law are just as evil or incompentent as the trustees and their lackeys. Basically trust no one and be prepared for anything. I would not believe anyone in this process. They are all a bunch of thugs." Obviously something happened in your own case to make you feel this way, but please keep in mind that many of us here have posted in multiple threads about our own excellent bk lawyers who handle our cases with exceptional care and competency. Yes, there are incompetent attorneys involved in bankruptcy and also some that are out solely for their own financial gain, but it's a minority. The majority of bankruptcy lawyers are hard-working and honest people who want to help those of us in financial trouble find the light at the end of a long, dark tunnel.

The best way to find a good bankruptcy attorney, as Down @ Out noted, is to educate yourself about bankruptcy first so you can see through the frauds and incompetents during the free initial consultation. See http://bankruptcy.lawyers.com/Bankru...-a-Lawyer.html for how to prepare to meet with a bk lawyer, then visit the links at the bottom of the page for what to do when you meet face to face, and then how to select a bk lawyer.

[down @ out]

pro-se vs attorney

Have to say my opinions about bankruptcy were not driven by the difficulty of my own case. It was driven by interviewing a number of attorneys and reading the law, and spending a lot of time watching 341 hearings. I guess over a 2 month period I invested about 200 hours.

It was time well spent. I really believe anyone getting into this process has to take the time to understand what is going on and the people they will be involved with. Just because you are swiming with great white sharks doesn`t mean that you will get eaten all of the time. There will be times you are ok. But not to understand what you are doing is an invitation to a real disaster.

Going through bankruptcy is a job. It is probably the most importent job you will ever have. How good you will do will effect the rest of your life. Treat it that way.

I have absolutely no confidence in the folks I saw in this process. The attorneys, the trustees, and their vermin. The bottom line is they can all destroy you. Understand that and you will be ok. Fail to understand that and you can ruin the rest of your life. To the attorneys and other low lifes involved in all of this we are all well just a job. It is how they make money.

Just because the great white shark you are working with doesn`t eat you doesn`t mean he or she is a kind caring fish, it only means for the moment he is not hungry.

Finding ethics in this mess is like looking for a priest in a bordello. Can`t say it will not happen but if it does something is wrong.

[SamanthaJones]

I agree with your perspective, down @ out.

3 laywers already, they not only lied to me ( I knew a thing or two aabout a thing or two prior to going), if I had taken their lead I'd have screwed myself awfully. BK IS a job. I wish I could find a reliable professional, but it's not looking good.

[9877donna]

Yes it's sad but true. These days you need to educate YOURSELF about Bankruptcy before going to hire an attorney.That way you can tell if he is leading you in the right(or wrong) direction.Studying the BK laws is not just for pro-se filers anymore.

[no_it_all]

<big snip>
And a piece of advice....the US trustee will try to get every penny out of you by going by a formula not your actual expenses. I would think really hard about filing pro-se in this post BK Law world. I didn't and now i am in a real mess.
Kristine

Sorry about your problems but it seems as though you brought them all on yourself. You mentioned that the Trustee will go by a formula and not your actual expenses. Anyone that ever filled out a Means Test Calculation knows that! Otherwise people would be able to claim BK while having a lavish lifestyle (not suggesting you did/do).

I agree people should think long and hard about filling Pro Se or not. The <average joe> probably wouldn't have the horsepower to do an acceptable job. And note that it is a job. OTOH, many people have filed Pro Se successfully. It is really up to the individual to evaluate their cognitive abilities honestly and then make a decision.

Thank you for posting your experiences, many do think it is a walk in the park and obviously it isn't.....good luck

[no_it_all]

Seems like those folks are just mean spirited and not really concerned about the reality of your situation.

Either that, or the creditors just want their money back and the Trustee thinks there are grounds for abuse...A wild thought I know..but possible.

[ChainSmokin]

[Spartan]

"...Getting religion in the process may or may not help..."


It is true tho. There is no need to get emotional about the process. Everyone is just doing his/her job.

Do your due deligence by getting the NOLO book. Call the legal aid office to ask for recommendations. Talk to several attorneys. etc etc etc......


To the original poster. Hope everything works out. Keep us updated on the outcome.

While there is no point in crying over spilled milk, no-it-all is correct in that, had you come here to inquire first, the experienced members here would have pointed out that the mean test is based on a formular, not on what you think you are entitled to expense.

Regardless, I am sure your lawyer and the trustees will work out a compromise. Thus, at the end, it should be ok. You can rebuild and move on. Good luck.

[kristineco]

Thanks for Support

Just wanted to say thanks for those of you who offered their support.
And happy days to all!

[9877donna]

From what I’ve gathered, the BKer needs to run the ball 99 yards then hand it off to an attorney to punch it into the endzone from the one yard line. Getting religion in the process may or may not help.

ChainSmokin,You wouldn't happen to be a Super Bowl Fan??

[ChainSmokin]

Go Bears!

[9877donna]

Go Bears!

[bige1030]

It looks like two of you are disappointed now...Colts win 29-17.