New job after filing

[ajames1526]

I filed BK CH7 on 11/27. At that time my income was by far low enough that I didn't have to worry about the means test at all. Today I was given an offer, to which I accepted, that places me in a much better financial position. My 341 is 12/27. Is my new job going to affect my filing at all?

[SinkingFast]

That's not a simple yes or no Q.

Will you be have to move to a higher cost of living area for the new job? You currently live in the Midwest and have accepted a job on one of the Coasts.

Will your expenses for the new job increase over the old job?? You currently work where you can dress casual and the new job will require you wear a suit.

If you're changing jobs, but your expenses aren't changing, then the new job could have a substantial impact on your BK filing. Most especially if the new income takes you over the Median.

The Trustee is gonna ask at the 341. Do you anticipate any significant increase in income?? Or some variation along that theme. We were asked that. And, the Trustee asked Hubby if he got bonuses on his job.

Have you contacted your attny and notified him/her yet??!! That's definitely something you wanna do.

[ajames1526]

Actually I filed pro se as I could not afford an attorney. I'm going to call one tomorrow though. Yes the overall income would place me over the median but it is contract work not a permanent position as such.

[CindyLou]

can you wait to start the position until after the 341???? that would at least be a little easier than if you had already started. the fact is that until you ACTuALLY start you cannot FULLY anticipate the change.

[ajames1526]

The problem is I was hired only because someone else quit. After 2+ years waiting for an opportunity like this I just don't know. If I attempted to try to extend the job out 2 more weeks go the 341 then take the job wouldn't I be constituting fraud when asked "if I anticipate any changes in my financial future" and said NO. Reality is the job wouldn't be there anyway if I tried to extend it and in reality it is a temp job with max time of 8 months or less. Says it right on the offer letter. I'm lost on this and just looking for advise on how someone else might handle it if given the same circumstances.

[SinkingFast]

I **think** you could answer the Trustee honestly.

Tell him/her you are currently looking for a permanent position.

Don't lie, but don't tell more than you have to.

Let the Trustee's questions be your guide.

If the Trustee asks where your money to live is coming from, you can honestly say you've been taking Temp Jobs to fill the gap.

Trustees have believe you have the means to fund a Ch 13 Payment Plan. An 8 month temporary position won't hardly qualify for a Trustee to reasonably believe you could fund a 36-60 month Ch 13 Payment Plan.

Also, you're gonna have to save out of this job to tide you over until the next position appears.

Just some rambling thoughts there.

[9877donna]

It should not affect your BK....

I filed BK CH7 on 11/27. At that time my income was by far low enough that I didn't have to worry about the means test at all. Today I was given an offer, to which I accepted, that places me in a much better financial position. My 341 is 12/27. Is my new job going to affect my filing at all?

No.
The trustee only looks at your income from the 6 months previous to filing BK.
The only thing he'll be looking for now is a windfall or lottery winnings while your Bk is opened and active.
Just answer all the questions honestly at your 341 that the Trustee asks you (which is usually with a yes or no) and you'll be OK.Do not offer any information unless asked by the Trustee to do so.
Donna

[lrprn]

No.
The trustee only looks at your income from the 6 months previous to filing BK.

This may be true in Ch 7 cases, but unfortunately some of the latest bk court cases are ruling that trustees can look *forward* ("projected disposable income") when deciding on Ch 13 payments.



(From http://bankruptcymedia.com/lawofbapcpa.html#Anchor1325)

"Projected disposable income" calculation is becoming more prevalent with each bk case decision that supports it, so trustees are using these decisions to look forward into what income you can expect to receive in the future after you file as well. It's not as straightforward as it seemed right after the new bk law went into effect a year ago.

[ajames1526]

I guess from what I'm getting from trying to assimilate all this info is the job doesn't change the fact of why I filed BK in the first place. Sure if I would have had a crystal ball I might have not attempted to file but the bottom line is I filed all my pay stubs with my paper and I did not have 6 months of employment. What employment I did have even if it would have been 6 months worth was not near enough to hit the median. 2005 I had no income. I lived off of family and a cashed in 401K. Maybe I'm wrong but the offer letter states 8 months or less of employment and sure if it were permeneant the wage amount would shoot me way over the median. It was suggested by someone that I write out a brief synopsis of what is going on and send it to the trustee along with the offer letter. At least at that point the issue of honesty would be answered.

[HHM]

to lrprn, when it comes to income, there is a distinct difference between the procedural posture of a chapter 13 and a chapter 7 when it comes to the BK estate. In a chapter 7, the BK estate is created (and frozen) at the time of filing. However, in a chapter 13, the BK estate is created at the time of filing, but because of the nature of a chapter 13, your future earnings are part of the BK estate.

Thus, I would not be too concerned about "projected" disposable income in a chapter 7...that issue is only for chapter 13's (at least for the time being).

[lrprn]

to lrprn, when it comes to income, there is a distinct difference between the procedural posture of a chapter 13 and a chapter 7 when it comes to the BK estate. ... Thus, I would not be too concerned about "projected" disposable income in a chapter 7...that issue is only for chapter 13's (at least for the time being).

HHM, this is why I started my comment with "This may be true in Ch 7..." Just didn't want our members to think that the "6 months prior" is always a hard and fast rule in all bankruptcies. Didn't intend to imply that Ch 7 is the same as Ch 13 in this situation - you're right...it isn't. Thanks!

[HHM]

HHM, this is why I started my comment with "This may be true in Ch 7..." Just didn't want our members to think that the "6 months prior" is always a hard and fast rule in all bankruptcies. Didn't intend to imply that Ch 7 is the same as Ch 13 in this situation - you're right...it isn't. Thanks!

LOL, . I just wanted to make the separate point so people who read this post don't freak out.

[keepmine]

I'd agree with HHM. Don't volunteer any information. Don't lie if asked about present job prospects at the 341. I doubt this will be any sort of issue.
I did see your post at the other site and thought I'd let you know that the respondent is not a bk lawyer. He is a debt collectionlawyer and runs a judgment enforcement pratice. Don't think he's trying to sabotage you-just that bk is not his speciality.
Since I saw you getting good advice here, I decided not to stir the pot over there.

[SinkingFast]

Personally, I would not send the letter you are thinking of sending.

You filed Pro Se. You don't know the Codes inside and out. The Trustee does. You could have drawn a "Letter of the Law" type character who would beat you over the head with the Code.

We were not asked "Do you anticipate a substantial increase in income?" We were asked, "How much do you make per year?" and "Do you anticipate receiving any bonuses?" Hubby stated his salary and said "No." to the bonus question. The Trustee asked how long Hubby had been with his employer. Hubby said 1.5 years. The Trustee asked if Hubby's company paid bonuses. Hubby said,"If there is a bonus program, I am not aware of it." And that was it.

If this were a permanent, full-time position you'd been offered, that's one thing. I'd feel compelled to tell about that. But a temporary gig is something totally different. Personally, I'd wait until the 341 and follow the Trustee's lead. Answer the Trustee's questions. Keep your answers short and to the point. Be honest but don't offer up any additional information.

[9877donna]

Personally, I would not send the letter you are thinking of sending.

You filed Pro Se. You don't know the Codes inside and out. The Trustee does. You could have drawn a "Letter of the Law" type character who would beat you over the head with the Code.

We were not asked "Do you anticipate a substantial increase in income?" We were asked, "How much do you make per year?" and "Do you anticipate receiving any bonuses?" Hubby stated his salary and said "No." to the bonus question. The Trustee asked how long Hubby had been with his employer. Hubby said 1.5 years. The Trustee asked if Hubby's company paid bonuses. Hubby said,"If there is a bonus program, I am not aware of it." And that was it.

If this were a permanent, full-time position you'd been offered, that's one thing. I'd feel compelled to tell about that. But a temporary gig is something totally different. Personally, I'd wait until the 341 and follow the Trustee's lead. Answer the Trustee's questions. Keep your answers short and to the point. Be honest but don't offer up any additional information.

I totally agree with the above poster.As I stated in my post (for Chapter 7 filers only) the Trustee is only looking at your previous six months income just before you filed BK.
There's no need to offer up any other information unless asked by the Trustee.
Good Luck to you.
Donna