Secured or Not?

[Walnut]

I am in the process of filing a Ch 7 and have a few accounts I am not sure how to list (part of my take home homework). They are Best Buy (a refrigerator now 6 years old worth maybe $300 - owing $3000 or so) - account sold to Cach LLC. Then there's Sony Financial Services for a TV bought at Circuit City about 3 years ago, worth $600, owing $3900 - originally with Bank One, now with HSBC. Levin Furniture (worth $500 maybe, owing $2100), owned by World Financial, and lastly Sears (only have a few items left - a dryer worth about $70 that is ten years old and a vacuum cleaner worth maybe $30 that is six years old - owing $2900).

The forms ask whether or not I want to keep the items. Does that mean reaffirm the agreements? If so - hell no way as you can see they aren't worth much anymore. What if the original creditor sold the account off, like Best Buy and Bank One did? Does the Security Agreement go with them? I don't recall signing a security agreement but I gather Best Buy had one and probably Sears too.

[HHM]

What does your attorney say? or have you asked.

Strictly speaking, they are probably secured. The only one that may NOT be secured is the Sears.

HOWEVER, I would not list them as secured. Make them prove it is secured if they want to. After all, so much time has gone by, do you really KNOW they are secured

Most of the Collectors will push really hard for reaffirmation with threats of repo'ing property etc. But just ignore them. They have no interest in repo'ing the property. In the end, you will get your discharge, and they will be out of luck.

If you search around the forums, there are quite a few posts about Best Buy...in each case, they are just blow hards...they talk a big game, but if you hold your ground and say NO NO NO, they eventually fade away, as will the rest.

[Walnut]

OK - I will list them as unsecured since I do not have any documentation on hand that says otherwise. Sounds like the best way to go. And it is truthful since as I said, I do not recall signing anything of the sort.

[Walnut]

Oh, attorney mentioned he thought Best Buy was and maybe Sears.

[CindyLou]

I don't think ANY of those are secured...if they were they would have come after them along time ago when you stopped paying. But, Call and ask. I listed my best buy as unsecured and got no response. Also, I hear that sears will ALWAYS show up at 341, but don't let it imtimidate you. Call each of them and ask if the debt secured. if they say yes, ask them to send you proof. Otherwise list at unsecured. Even if it comes out that they are secured, they don't want your stuff back. They want to get you to pay, but unless they are "financed" or secured they are dischargable.

[HHM]

I don't think ANY of those are secured...if they were they would have come after them along time ago when you stopped paying. But, Call and ask. I listed my best buy as unsecured and got no response. Also, I hear that sears will ALWAYS show up at 341, but don't let it imtimidate you. Call each of them and ask if the debt secured. if they say yes, ask them to send you proof. Otherwise list at unsecured. Even if it comes out that they are secured, they don't want your stuff back. They want to get you to pay, but unless they are "financed" or secured they are dischargable.

Honestly, I wouldn't go to the trouble of making calls. Just list them as unseucred. There is no downside to you for doing so. Worst case scenario, you have to amend your schedule, (no big deal). Honestly, these "secured" store cards are treated just like regular credit cards when it comes to collections, there really is no viable secondary market for used consumer goods, so even those these debts are secured, they don't really go after the accounts any more aggresively than any unsecured creditor.

[ConnieS]

We had a Sears account ($2600) balance and had purchased a $800 riding mower a little more than a year before. Never heard a word from them and they DID NOT show up at the 341. Only a week to go for final objections so keeping our fingers crossed.

[Walnut]

Hey good luck Connie!

Yeah, we haven't paid Sears in well.. over a year. Best Buy about the same, and Sony I was able to get current before the summer (it was 120 days PD) then wife got hours slashed in the summer and fell behind again. Not a whimper about repos.

[annikasaunt]

No problem with Sears, never heard from them. Best Buys is a different story! I get letters and phone calls from their attys Bass and Assoc all the time. They want their secured items back...I just ignore them. The letters want ME to tell THEM what I have...nope...if they want it, they will have to tell me what it is that I have...and as I've read here, they can't! So, don't list anything as secured, all unsecured and let them prove their case if they so choose!