Creditor access?

[yomama]

I was wondering how much the creditors are allowed to know about you when you're filing for bankruptcy and during the process. Do they have access to the papers that you file? Just what information are they privy to? We had to list our income for our previous two years' income tax returns and those amounts were substantially higher than what the income is right now due to my husband's job loss. I've seen where creditors can object to your discharge (at least of their particular amount) and I didn't know if they'd see our income from previous years and wonder why it dropped, but it was due to my husband's losing his job. Are previou years' tax returns really any of their business at all? I guess I just don't like more people knowing our business than have to. I hate the fact that we've even gotten to the position of having to file, but we can't pay on them. We have been paying on some of these since 1997 and never missed any payments until last year when we turned the cards over to the debt negotiation company. There were others that we opened since then, I think in 2001 and 2003 and have also paid on those until last year. What we should have done is just quit charging. We thought we could keep up with things...not the case.

[SinkingFast]

Pretty much anyone who knows about PACER can sign up and get a acct. Including Creditors and Collection Agencies. I'd guess they probably do access PACER as they have entire depts devoted to working with people who file BK. So yes, any of our Creditors can look at our Petitions and see what ever info they want.

The thing is, most people you'd run into on the street don't know about PACER. Many people that file BK don't know about PACER. AND, most attnys you talk to would be very upset to know you know about PACER, much less have an acct if you register and get a User ID.

I slipped and told one attny we consulted with about PACER and she literally flipped out. How did I know about PACER? How did I get an acct on PACER? How was I allowed to access files on PACER?

But, Yes, Yomama. BK can be a very public process if interested people choose to look in the right places for the information.

[sofarindebt]

why would an attorney flip out about pacer?

I only know about it because I was in the collections department at my old job for 5 years........we would check to see if someone had filed bankruptcy yet. why is it a big deal?

[HHM]

Bad news is, your entire petition (minus your SSN, some other personal info, and account numbers), and any other document that gets filed in your BK is a public record and can be accessed by anyone.

But don't worry about it, your being paranoid.

[yomama]

Sinking Fast,
I've seen people mention Pacer on here but am not quite sure what it is. I know I don't have any account. Of course, we didn't file yet, so I guess there'd be no reason for us to have an account? I never heard of Pacer before coming here. If I ever do find out, I guess it would be a good idea not to tell the attorney then. It sounds like some top secret orgnanization. I just wish the people's records wouldn't be so public. I'm just a private person and don't like people knowing my business. I hated to even tell my parents that we're filing for bankruptcy but considering we borrowed money from them in March, they'll be getting a letter just like the other creditors will, I guess, even though we plan on paying them back when we have more funds.

[yomama]

Well, I guess it's really no big deal. I just don't like anyone and everyone knowing everything about my life, but on the other hand, I'll never meet them face to face (at least I guess not), so I suppose it shouldn't really matter to me. If anything, I suppose they could see in black and white why we can't afford to pay them. Our debts FAR exceed our assets, and if they look at the decrease in income from the previous two years, they should understand for sure why we're having so much trouble. So even though I don't like people having public access to our records, come to think of it, this should help us if they look at our situation. At least they "should" understand better why we can't pay them.

I only know about it because I was in the collections department at my old job for 5 years........we would check to see if someone had filed bankruptcy yet. why is it a big deal?

[yomama]

Bad news is, your entire petition (minus your SSN, some other personal info, and account numbers), and any other document that gets filed in your BK is a public record and can be accessed by anyone.

But don't worry about it, your being paranoid.

I guess it really is true that people have no privacy anymore, huh. Haha, now you sound like my husband. I'm a born worrier and he just rolls his eyes at me and says, "You worry too much about nothing." If that's the way a person is, I'm not sure how they change. I guess my worrying is mostly a fear of the unknown, no matter what I do that I've never done before. My husband says it's good that I'm informed about bankruptcy now, but on the other hand, he says he thinks I'm reading too much and am conjuring up things that could go wrong. For instance, I know that creditors have a time period during which they could object. Well, I know if I were the creditor, I'd object because I'd want my money! So I'm already thinking that they might object. I was worried about them taking our cars, but now I think that won't happen, but I don't want to get overly confident about that. It just almost seems to good to be true that we won't lose anything. I had previously misunderstood Chapter 7 because I had always thought that they liquidate all your assets to pay the creditors, which turns out not to be the case. Man, I'd better take some kind of anxiety meds on the day of the 341 meeting. Oh, btw, why is it called that?

[CindyLou]

They are only going to object if they think there is a VERY GOOD chance that they will actually collect their money. Yep, take a chill pill and nice warm bath

[SinkingFast]

Here's a link to the thread about PACER:

http://www.bankruptcyforum.com/showthread.php?t=1011

Public Access to Court Electronic Records.

Most BK attnys file their clients' petitions and schedules via ECF. Electronic Court Filing.

PACER is the centralized data base of all ECF activity. It's not just limited to BK. There are other Courts' dockets and cases available there as well.

Yomama,............ I looked at lots of people's filings on PACER as we were Consulting with attnys and prepping to file BK. I can honestly say, while I may remember a few details of some of the cases, I certainly don't know the people's names or where they live. That's not the part I was interested in.

I was looking for how much they budgeted for food. Were they allowed this or that expense. If so, how much? That type of thing.


Cindy,............

The only reason I can think that the Lady attny flipped out is maybe she thought I'd stepped over the line into her territory. Maybe PACER is sacred, for attnys only, in her mind.

'Scuse me, but the first word in the title is PUBLIC!!

[Kam]

Also, keep in mind that it costs $$ to check records on Pacer. You can quickly accrue a big bill simple from doing searches and going through individual records. I had a $37.00 bill within a week of accessing Pacer. I could see a CC company having the $$ to access Pacer, but I can't see snoopy Gladys down the street forking over the $$ to spy on you. We were worried about our name appearing in our local newspaper, then said to hell with it when I started seeing other names I knew, including the son of a local attorney!

[yomama]

They are only going to object if they think there is a VERY GOOD chance that they will actually collect their money. Yep, take a chill pill and nice warm bath

That makes sense. I know they'll be waiting a long time if they think they'll get something from us because we just don't have it to give.

[yomama]

SinkingFast, That's the way our lawyer is going to file because he printed out the papers to let us go over them so he can make any changes before he actually clicks the button to file it. I was wondering what PACER stood for and now I know. I was surprised after reading on here yesterday that it seemed like lawyers don't want people knowing about it, but he's actually the one who mentioned it to us. I don't know if I'd sign up with it because I don't actually know what good it would do me, not to mention I'm sure that 8 cents a page would add up fast once I'd get looking at things, so I guess I'll just live in suspense.
Since my husband and I just estimated to the best of our ability what we spend on each thing every month, it's already done, so I guess I wouldn't have to look at PACER anyway. I just still really don't understand why people should have access to other people's information like that. I just seems like it's kind of invading your privacy, but yet, since the 341 meetings are public, I guess this is no different. Of course, I don't know what goes on in the 341 meetings and if like say your neighbor or a friend would find out that you're filing for bankrupty and would show up at the meeting (I know this is real far-fetched), but I just didn't know if they'd be able to find out just from sitting in on it how much you're in debt. I guess you'd have to live in a rural area to understand. People know people and they gossip and I just despise it.

[yomama]

Also, keep in mind that it costs $$ to check records on Pacer. You can quickly accrue a big bill simple from doing searches and going through individual records. I had a $37.00 bill within a week of accessing Pacer. I could see a CC company having the $$ to access Pacer, but I can't see snoopy Gladys down the street forking over the $$ to spy on you. We were worried about our name appearing in our local newspaper, then said to hell with it when I started seeing other names I knew, including the son of a local attorney!

Yes, that's true. I can't imagine people around here who know me would have any more money than I do to spend on things like looking at other people's records. Like I just said to SinkingFast, this is a small community where I live and I just don't like the idea of anyway having knowledge of my business. I suppose if I'd live in a city I'd have a different mindset. You sound like me. I was also thinking about our names being in the newspaper, but our lawyer said that they wouldn't be. I guess I just plain worry too much. Just when I get over worrying about one thing I find something else to worry about. lol