okay, had meeting with attorney tonight

[MEA2]

I agree with Donna here. If you've only seen one attny, maybe make a couple other Consult appts with different attnys. Get some different points of view.

Don't prejudice the other attnys by telling them what you've already been advised. Just see what each one has to say.

I took the advice of this board and went to 4 free consults,the first lawyer was clueless!Their perspectives were all soo different.We are going with attorney #4(he is also a trustee)we feel so comfortable with him.Good luck!

[sofarindebt]

I have no idea about the no payment fraud thing (m)

but if the creditor doesn't object, then the judge won't right? The attorney seemed to think if a year goes by they usually don't object............is this true? Now I am worried again.

[9877donna]

sofarindebt,Let me tell you what I know from reading up on this 'objections to discharge' and 'adversary proceedings'.
If the creditor,judge or trustee looks at a case (or even suspects) that it looks like there was 'fraud' or 'intent not to pay' involved they can object to discharge.And the creditor can file an 'adversary proceeding'.In other words they are suing you in Bankruptcy Court.You will have to pay your attorney alot more money to represent you in one of these proceedings.If you win the creditor has to pay your legal fees and the debt gets discharged.If they win you have to pay your lawyers fees,the creditors lawyers fees and the debt amount incurred along with a ton of late fees and charges that will have accumulated over the year.
It is on the creditors shoulder to prove 'intent' or 'fraud'.Not an easy thing for them to do but if you opened credit cards by lying on your credit application and then never made one payment to any of them then it definitely shows 'fraud' or 'intent'.So it would not be hard for one of those creditors to prove this to the court.
sofarindebt,Take the posters advice and go see a few more attorneys and see what they have to say about your situation.Then decide what's best for you.
Good luck and please keep us posted.
Donna
Hey guys if any of the information I gave sfid is wrong please jump in and let us know!!!

[9877donna]

sofarindebt,Let me tell you what I know from reading up on this 'objections to discharge' and 'adversary proceedings'.
If the creditor,judge or trustee looks at a case (or even suspects) that it looks like there was 'fraud' or 'intent not to pay' involved they can object to discharge.And the creditor can file an 'adversary proceeding'.In other words they are suing you in Bankruptcy Court.You will have to pay your attorney alot more money to represent you in one of these proceedings.If you win the creditor has to pay your legal fees and the debt gets discharged.If they win you have to pay your lawyers fees,the creditors lawyers fees and the debt amount incurred along with a ton of late fees and charges that will have accumulated over the year.
It is on the creditors shoulder to prove 'intent' or 'fraud'.Not an easy thing for them to do but if you opened credit cards by lying on your credit application and then never made one payment to any of them then it definitely shows 'fraud' or 'intent'.So it would not be hard for one of those creditors to prove this to the court.
sofarindebt,Take the posters advice and go see a few more attorneys and see what they have to say about your situation.Then decide what's best for you.
Good luck and please keep us posted.
Donna
Hey guys if any of the information I gave sfid is wrong please jump in and let us know!!!

sfid,I am NOT a lawyer and this is not to be taken as legal advice.

[lrprn]

but if the creditor doesn't object, then the judge won't right? The attorney seemed to think if a year goes by they usually don't object............is this true? Now I am worried again.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...2----000-.html for the full code citation.

Truthfully, SFID, no one here can predict with certainty what your creditors, trustee, or bankruptcy court judge will say about your situation. It's just unfortunate that these credit cards do make you vulnerable to a potential fraud charge, even if your intent was not to defraud. Your lawyer is most familiar with what's acceptable and what's not in your bk district, so if he/she thinks a year is enough time, then you have two choices - (1) hope your lawyer is correct, or (2) ask your lawyer if it's best to make a payment or two on these cards now, then let 90 days go by before filing.

If you choose (1), are you able to wait the year out to file?

[HHM]

I think we need to clarify, have you made ANY payment to these credit cards? I don't think that question has actually been answered. Your attorney said to "stop" making payments, so I would presume that you made a few payments to your credit card.

If you didn't make any payments...I think you should expect creditor objections...if you made at least a few...then I doubt a creditor would object because you are waiting a year.

[9877donna]

quoted from sofarindebt:At least 3 of these cards we have never even made one payment on........

HHM This is what sfid stated in the first thread they started on 'Creditor Objections'.It's on the second page now.
Donna

[CindyLou]

Ok, I had two credit cards; never made a payment. My intent was to repay, but due to unforeseen circumstances, was unable to. No objections; nothing. Filed under old law. One was for $4800 and one for $7200. One was used for car repairs. My advice is do what you can and then stop worrying. I worried WAY TOO much during the process and now know that it didn't change anything expect making me feel worse. Plus I didn't have an attorney. I think hiring an attorney and then trusting what they say to do is important. Be sure they do a lot of bankrupcties. Good luck and think happy thoughts!

[9877donna]

You filed under the old laws...

Ok, I had two credit cards; never made a payment. My intent was to repay, but due to unforeseen circumstances, was unable to. No objections; nothing. Filed under old law. One was for $4800 and one for $7200. One was used for car repairs. My advice is do what you can and then stop worrying. I worried WAY TOO much during the process and now know that it didn't change anything expect making me feel worse. Plus I didn't have an attorney. I think hiring an attorney and then trusting what they say to do is important. Be sure they do a lot of bankrupcties. Good luck and think happy thoughts!

The New Bk laws prevent people who commit 'fraud' or 'intent not to pay' from getting a dishcarge of those particular debts.
And the OP has plenty to be worried about.
Donna

[SinkingFast]

Ok, I had two credit cards; never made a payment. My intent was to repay, but due to unforeseen circumstances, was unable to. No objections; nothing. Filed under old law. One was for $4800 and one for $7200. One was used for car repairs. My advice is do what you can and then stop worrying. I worried WAY TOO much during the process and now know that it didn't change anything expect making me feel worse. Plus I didn't have an attorney. I think hiring an attorney and then trusting what they say to do is important. Be sure they do a lot of bankrupcties. Good luck and think happy thoughts!

When I first joined here, people were used to the Old Law way things happened. If you were beyond the presumption period, pretty much Creditors packed it in, wrote off your debt, and you were home free.

New Law, different rules. This was just the first of Creditor Objections posted on the Forum from people filing under New Law:

http://www.bankruptcyforum.com/showt...itor+objecting

And that one was for the entire balance, not just recent charges.

Granted, there have been opinions and decisions rendered since then. Some things are more defined. But still, there are many grey areas of the New Law.

I personally won't feel comfortable until we're discharged and closed.

[9877donna]

Hey SinkingFast that's a good link...

When I first joined here, people were used to the Old Law way things happened. If you were beyond the presumption period, pretty much Creditors packed it in, wrote off your debt, and you were home free.

New Law, different rules. This was just the first of Creditor Objections posted on the Forum from people filing under New Law:

http://www.bankruptcyforum.com/showt...itor+objecting

And that one was for the entire balance, not just recent charges.

Granted, there have been opinions and decisions rendered since then. Some things are more defined. But still, there are many grey areas of the New Law.

I personally won't feel comfortable until we're discharged and closed.

SinkingFast,That's a good link.It never says the outcome but I would have settled it out of court and payed back the $1500 at $100 a month.Better than losing in court and paying the whole $14000 back to Capital One!
I too won't feel comfortable until were discharged and closed.Too many variables in the new BK laws.Everytime I get a official letter in the mail from the BK court or a lawyers office I just panic immediately thinking some creditor is objecting to discharge.Ugh...
Donna

[tradewiz50]

sofarindebt,Did your lawyer advise you to start making payments on those 3 credit cards that you opened and never made one payment on? Just curious about that.
It's hard to believe that even putting a year between the time you opened the cc's and the time you filed would make any difference if you never made a payment on any of them.Still screams 'fraud' to me.And I would think the cc's would sue way before then.
Anybody comment on this??
Donna

Bingo. The OP is clearly conspiring to commit fraud here folks.

[sofarindebt]

Boy are you quick to judge

I am not conspiring to commit fraud at all. The reason for no payments on some of these is because I joined a settlement company and was making payments to them, where they kept it in a savings account and were goint to settle with the cc companies.

I found I couldn't afford that either so by the time I dropped out of that, the minimum payment was like $600, so that is the reason for making no payments.

One card I took out in April, balance is $14K with Bank of America.

the other 2 are balance of 3K, from Wells Fargo.

I have no problem making good faith payments of like $100/month for these, but I doubt they would accept anything less than the minimum.

[FoolAndHisMoney]

I have no problem making good faith payments of like $100/month for these, but I doubt they would accept anything less than the minimum.

Trust me they will accept anything you give them. They won't be happy about getting less then minimum, but they won't say "here sofarindebt, keep your measly $100 and only pay us the full minimum due or nothing". For your own protection you should do the right thing and pay them what you can afford to for as long as you can.

[CindyLou]

Just please don't pay them anything unless the attorney you choose tells you that you should. I still stand by that the creditor has to PROVE intent to defraud. Which means if you didn't lie on your application, it is very very hard to do!! Extremely diffifult to prove what was in your heart and brain when you made those purchases!! Either way...I'm not saying ignore the issue, just please follow the advice of a trusted lawyer on this one. Believe me, from someone who had every INTENT to pay back my debts; things happen and they happen quickly. Period. That does not mean you are out to defraud. I think if you were our to commit fraud, you wouldn't be on here trying to figure out how to do the right thing!!